Rick Levine Gets Real! | Backstage Astrology Interview

Backstage Interview with Rick Levine

0:00
Who is Rick Lavine really? We’ve seen him decoding the stars on

0:05
YouTube, breaking down transits in every astrology channel, teaching at every

0:12
major conference around the world, arguing passionately with other

0:17
astrologers, writing columns, recording daily horoscopes,

0:23
laying music under the same sky he studies. We’ve seen him seek the unseen,

0:29
chasing cosmic truth through science, myth, and magic. Yes, we’ve seen Rick

0:36
Lavine pretty much everywhere, but we’ve never seen him behind the scenes. And

0:42
today, for the first time, Rick Lavine shares his personal journey, his fears,

0:48
his biggest challenges, and he gets real. Also he will share with us his own

0:54
natal chart explained by himself. Here the astrologer becomes the story. So

1:00
grab your favorite drink and stay with us. [Music]

1:25
Welcome to Backstage Astrology, where we take off the expert mask and get real.

1:31
My name is Myra. I’m an astrology enthusiast and also a creative advisor.

1:36
I’ve been helping astrologers with their digital stuff for a few years. And the more I get to see them behind the

1:43
scenes, the more I realize that also our astrologers go through a lot of big

1:48
challenges. They have big fears, big insecurities. I’ve always wonder what it

1:54
was to be an astrologer, how their lives look like really behind all the cosmic

1:59
wisdom. I always had this question of like how is your life really and also obviously if you can make a living out

2:06
of astrology. So in this new series, I’m trying to talk to astrologers and to

2:11
really understand what goes on with their lives behind the scenes, all the challenges they have faced as

2:17
astrologers before and actually because obviously before maybe if you would tell

2:23
someone you were an astrologer, they would label you in a certain or specific way. This is a story that I keep hearing

2:29
from them. The point of this um new series I want to talk about their doubts, their fears, their

2:35
breakthroughs, all the behind the scenes moments, obviously their personal lives if they are willing to share. This is

2:41
the goal of this podcast is to create genuine connections with astrologers as human beings to to get to know them

2:48
better. And I hope you enjoy this series. Let’s see how many astrologers I can get here. And if you’re an

2:54
astrologer and you have a story you want to share with others, um please just send me an email. I will leave all the

3:00
details below. We’re going to talk about the personal struggles. And in the second part, we kind of dive into the

3:06
transits and insights they are passionate about, the ones that they fear the most, the ones that they find

3:13
most inspiring. Let’s see how this goes. And if you really like this conversations, please, please like the

3:20
video. Help me a little bit with the algorithm to get the message across. And obviously, I know this is for a very

3:25
specific niche. I’m guessing you’re here because you love astrology and you admire astrologers as well. And of

3:31
course, let’s get real. Let’s get real with the astrologers. Let’s try to uncover what happens behind the scenes.

3:38
So, thank you for being here and I really hope you enjoy each episode. And just in case you need a hand with your

3:44
digital stuff, either your website or just your social media or any visuals, I

3:50
am also a digital designer. I know astrology as well because I’m studying astrology. My dream really is to help

3:56
astrologers shine out in the digital jungle today. So if you need a hand with that, please visit my website

4:02
astrocrativa.com. All the details are below. I’m really passionate about it. I really want them

4:08
to shine. Like seriously. So if you need a hand with anything digital, just send me an email or just visit my website and

4:14
you can see a little bit of my work. Hopefully you will find it inspiring. I have a sun in Aquarius. I have a Virgo

4:21
moon, Taurus rising. I also have Jupiter in Aquarius, Mercury in Aquarius, Saturn in Scorpio. Um, I guess this is why I

4:27
like the backstage kind of astrology. So, everything is there. If you need a hand, please, I will be very happy to

4:33
help you. My name is Mara. Welcome to Backstage Astrology. And let’s get real.

4:42
Welcome back to another Backstage Astrology episode. And today I’m thrilled to be with master astrologer

4:50
Rick Leavine. Rick, how are you? Thank you so much for being here with us.

4:55
Well, I am happy to be here with you. I’ve been looking forward to this uh for two reasons. Number one, ever since we

5:02
met at the conference in London, I’ve been looking forward to this. And number two, I’ve been looking for a way to

5:09
unveil my t-shirt that says my line, think cosmically act locally, with

5:16
someone who added a great line to it that says even when Mercury is retro.

5:21
And I think you know who that is because this says a gift from Astro Creativ

5:31
Creativa. Yeah, Astro Creativa. Yeah. Thank you so much.com. So thank you for the gift and

5:37
so I’m happy to be here for two re both reasons. Thank you so much for me such a a

5:42
pleasure at honor and basically a dream come true that you’re here with us not only to to share this space with with

5:48
all of us but also to talk about your your personal story. You know we always hear you talking astrology and transit

5:56
transits and and queen cook whatever and now we want to know who who is Rick Leavine really what happens behind the

6:02
scenes. So there are some basic questions I ask like five top but the

6:08
first Rick how would you like people to know you really

6:16
that’s a good one um you know

6:22
um it it’s not really something I think about I mean I like people to know me um

6:30
or at least that portion that I present uh I do like to remind people who don’t

6:37
know me that I have I make up words and I make up terms and one of the terms

6:44
that I’ve made up is a hyperfunctional ascendant.

6:50
And as you know your listeners might know the our ascendant is kind of our

6:56
interface point from the inner to the outer. Some people say it’s how others see us. But in Vadic astrology, we’re

7:04
reminded that it’s just it’s not just how the inside gets out. It’s also how

7:10
the outside gets in. It’s a two-way street. And I have a Gemini ascendant or

7:16
Gemini rising. And I have a kind of a crazy sun,

7:22
Mercury, Venus, Mars conjunction in midairies that’s sexile.

7:28
that’s a flowing cooperative aspect uh to the ascendant from the 11th house

7:33
down to the ascendant and then I have Pluto that’s sexile the

7:39
ascendant from below the ascendant from the third house so my sun Mercury Venus and Mars are

7:46
trying Pluto with the ascendant right at the middle point

7:51
right and on top of that exactly and I say exactly opposite my Aries Stellium uh in Childhood & Early Life

7:59
is Neptune in Libra. That’s also at the same degree as my ascendant. So I have

8:06
Neptune in Libra trining my ascendant. Now what this means is I have Neptune

8:11
trining my ascendant. Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, and Pluto all sex titiling

8:16
my ascendant. Which means that when I’m in a situation where I have to be clever

8:23
or or interactive, people get a part of me that is not really me. I mean, it is,

8:30
but it’s kind of like the veneer and it’s a hyperfunctional ascendant, meaning that it hides a lot of the other

8:37
stuff in my chart. And most particularly, that would be my Cancer moon, um,

8:44
which is a very different flavor. And um yeah, and the right response to someone

8:49
saying I have a cancer moon, the right response is awesome.

8:56
And and and and I have to say that what I do know about myself is that if I

9:02
didn’t have a Cancer moon, I’d be a real [ __ ] Why? I actually I

9:08
because I’d be a because I’d be a jerk because I’d have I have Sun and Mars conjunct in Aries trying Pluto with a

9:15
who cares what anyone thinks with Uranus rising on in Gemini. I mean I I I’d be a

9:22
bit of a jerk, which I can be on occasion, but my Cancer moon really is

9:28
in fact caring and kind. And so it makes me it it gives me something that I think

9:34
works for me. And so how would I want people to know me? Interactive, present

9:40
and kind, you know. Yeah. Thank you for that. Actually, I have to

9:46
put your chart to understand and probably going to sh can I share your chart like in one of Absolutely. Yeah. So you guys can

9:52
follow. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a very interesting chart. Obviously I have questions about your chart but that’s for like the second

9:59
part because you have a very interesting chart. But um I want to just go back a

10:04
little bit. Um, and maybe you can tell us who were you before Rick Merlin

10:10
Levine, the astrologer, what were you doing? What were your dreams?

10:16
I grew up in uh, first of all, I was born in the Bronx, New York City. And I

10:22
grew up I I I won the what I like to call the geographic geographical

10:27
lottery. I grew up in a small town, well then a small town uh about almost 200

10:33
miles north of New York City um in the foothills of the Aderand Mountains, a

10:39
town called Saratoga Springs that a lot of people know as a resort town, a

10:45
summer vacation place. Um it’s uh the home of the New York City Ballet in the

10:52
Philadelphia Philarmonic. Um they summer there. Uh there’s a racetrack, a

10:57
performing arts center, and before the white folks got there, it was the sacred

11:03
meeting ground for the five nation and later six nation Irakcoy Indians, the

11:08
the Native Americans that were maybe one of the most sophisticated uh tribes

11:14
because they had a super tribe made up of all the local tribes in the area that

11:19
kind of worked in like council. And it was a matriarchy. And it was actually largely after the Irakcoy um nation uh

11:30
uh structure that Benjamin Franklin kind of constructed the American

11:35
Constitution. So Saratoga was a cool place to grow up. So I grew up in a in a

11:41
small town. Uh I was very good academically, but I never studied what I

11:48
was supposed to. And so even though I got really good grades, I was always the

11:53
one the teachers would say, um, this person would do really well if they tried. Now I tried, but not at the

12:00
things I was supposed to, which some people would say is still true in my

12:05
life. Um, I was very blessed though because I had a really good uh, education

12:11
um, and a good music education. I began playing violin when I was in third,

12:17
second grade. and and and trombone in third grade all the way up through high

12:22
school marching band and and uh and and high school orchestra and the violin. I

12:28
I took piano lessons. So I read and write and know music which I think has been one of the most important

12:34
influences in my astrological work because I spend so much of my um energy

12:40
we’ll come back to this later um in understanding the music of the spheres

12:45
and the harmonies and the harmonics and that really all comes from my belief

12:50
that everything is vibrational and musical and so that’s an important part

12:56
of my early life and also I grew grew up in a Jewish family that wasn’t very

13:02
religious. Matter of fact, wasn’t religious at all. But in my hometown, the only um uh local community center,

13:11
the synagogue was an Orthodox um synagogue. So I grew up reading and

13:16
writing Hebrew and being bar mitzv and and and so I grew up you know in that

13:22
learning environment which although when I was 14 I disavowed my Judaism being a

13:29
rebellious 14year-old. I basically said that I can’t believe in a god who would

13:34
just pick some raga muffin tribe in the desert and say everyone else sucked. Now I know it’s not quite that way but that

13:41
was my logic then. Um, and I actually have to say I share a birthday, not

13:47
birth year, but a solar degree with Ramdas. Um, and um, and I first had the

13:57
uh, the uh, privilege of seeing Ram Das when I was about 18 or 19 years old. And

14:03
through the years, I’ve seen him many times when on a weekend retreat. I mean, you know, when he was still very active

14:09
and and I have to say that one of my favorite lines is that when Ramdas, who

14:14
was brought up in a Jewish family uh with a father who was a very wealthy Jewish attorney um uh in Boston and when

14:24
asked if he was Jewish, Ramdas replied, “Only on my parents’ side.”

14:32
So, you know, and so for me, um, you know, the Jewish piece is is certainly an important part of my heritage. Um,

14:40
but I do not consider myself uh affiliated with any singular religion.

14:47
In fact, I like to think of myself as as a Robin Hood figure. And that is I’ll

14:53
steal from you know I’ll steal from the intellectually and spiritually wealthy

14:58
and give to anyone who wants it kind of a thing. So um and all religions have

15:05
you know some well religions have commonality with other religions um that

15:11
some people you know you know um you know call you know kind of like the you know the cosmic philosophy or the

15:16
universal you know philosophy. Um but on top of that all religions uh have a dual Dreams & Studies

15:23
nature and one is the teaching andor the mysticism that exists behind the

15:29
religion and the other is the propagation of the institution which has nothing to do with the religion and and

15:36
of course living in Israel I’m sure that you can understand that one pretty well.

15:42
Yeah, it’s a complicated living style here, but you know,

15:48
everyone uh in the end is walking their own truths. I mean, you know, in a

15:53
certain way because we all have different perspectives, but yeah, it’s complicated, but

15:59
Rick, what do you want to be when you were a kid? You want to be an astronomer or or a medic or did you have like a

16:06
specific kind of like, you know, six-year-old kind of fantasy or something like that?

16:12
Yeah. Yeah. I think I took the Peter Pan oath and decided that I would never grow up. Um, Gemini Rising, you know, the,

16:20
you know, the eternally, you know, uh, youthful poo who’s in denial of of

16:26
aging. I think I still have some of that at 76 years of age, which I am. Um,

16:33
wow. Um, but um, yeah, you know, um, I as as as a

16:40
kid, I read a lot of science fiction and, uh, I certainly, uh, thought about,

16:49
you know, captaining spaceships and things of that sort. Um, as as I grew

16:57
older, I realized that I had a great affinity towards math and science, even

17:04
though I love literature and reading and and and that was always an important

17:09
part of my life. But I actually went to college to be a geometry teacher. That

17:15
was what I thought I was going to be was uh was a math teacher. but geometry in particular because I loved the whole uh

17:22
spatial and how geometry somehow was tied up with things that were just not

17:28
just counting that was somehow more important. And I did very well in

17:33
school. I mean, incredibly well in in math. And I landed in college uh in 19

17:41
September of 1967 when the 60s were just basically

17:46
exploding. And within a month of being in college, I changed my major from math to

17:53
psychology. And um and I have a BA in psychology.

17:59
Wow. And I intended to be a Yungian analyst. That was my I mean I fell deep into the

18:06
uh even as a kid. I mean 12, 13 years old, I found found myself in the library

18:14
and I devoured pretty much all the books in our little library in town. But I found myself in the library reading

18:21
Freud and Jung and psych, you know, deep psychological stuff that quite frankly as a 12, 13, 14year-old, I really didn’t

18:28
understand what the hell I was reading, but I was totally reading it and drawn into it and and it was important. And

18:36
when I um became a psych major, I totally, you know, I mean, I I’m one of

18:42
those weirdos who’s actually read almost everything that Carl Jung wrote and also

18:48
read a lot of Freud’s work and the work of uh many of his students and including

18:55
you know people like Eric from and and and Carl well and actually uh Wilhelm Reich who is I think a very important

19:02
character in that whole scenario. But we could come back to that if you want later. But point being that by the time

19:10
you know I went to to college in the late60s graduated in the in 71 and that

19:17
was a period of time that Ram Das says that if you live through that period of time if you you know if if if you live

19:24
through the 60s you don’t remember them. Well, I lived through them and I remember them and um and there was, you

19:32
know, a bit of exploration and yoga and eastern philosophy and change of diet

19:38
and sex, drugs and rock and roll. And I

19:43
fell deep into all of that as a student and and including astrology. And um and

19:52
even in my early teen years, I was reading books uh not just science books

19:58
and science fiction, but I was uh reading a lot of books on things like

20:04
like UFOs and um and and hypnosis and um

20:09
and psychic studies and and life after death and stranger than science things.

20:15
And so astrology was just one of a whole host of things. that I was interested in. But astrology

20:23
became a thing and that combined with Jung and reading Jung’s work on

20:30
astrology in particular uh symbols of transfiguration and alchemical studies

20:35
um that were available at that time. Um, I was given a book by a friend and I

20:42
don’t remember who this was, but I can visualize someone coming over to the house I was living in in my senior year

20:48
at college saying, “Hey, I found this book. I think you might like it.” And the book was The Astrology of

20:55
Personality by Dane Rudar. And I had been already reading astrology

21:01
and looking at charts. There were no computers then. And so, you know, we were looking up rising signs and and

21:08
planets in signs and things of that sort. Um, but when I read that book, it changed my life because I realized that

21:14
I was not going to go and get a PhD in psychology and be a Yungian analyst. I

21:20
was not going to the Yungian Institute. I basically was going to be an astrologer. Now, at that time in 1969

21:28
7071, I didn’t know any astrologers. I didn’t know what an astrologer really was. The

21:35
closest I got to it was a book by um Sydney Omar, who wrote the uh SunSign

21:42
column in the Los Angeles Times for 20 or 30 years. Um and he wrote a book

21:48
called My Life in Astrology, but he was an astrologer to Hollywood, you know,

21:53
and he had a very different, it wasn’t a normal astrologer. And yet there was something in me that

22:00
just said, “This is what you’re going to do.” And um and I had no idea really what that meant. All I knew is that I Jupiter, Saturn & Deadlines

22:09
never really learned astrology. I just kind of remembered it. And I know

22:15
that I’ve heard other astrologers say that, too. But for me, that was very real. Somehow when I read astrology, I

22:23
always felt like I I knew more than what I just read about it. And um and you

22:30
know, geez, in my mid late 20s, I was already I was proficient. I thought I knew everything I ever needed to know

22:36
about astrology. Of course, now in my 70s, I realize I don’t know [ __ ] And you know, and there’s like so much, you

22:44
know, it’s like when people say, you know, master astrologer, I cringe because there’s a part of me that just

22:50
knows how much I don’t know. Um, and even though I’ve carved out an area of

22:56
expertise based upon my experience, that’s really all we can do because it’s

23:02
so vast and it’s like the many headed hydra. Every time you cut off one, two

23:07
grow back. And every time you answer a question, two questions appear, you

23:12
know, in place of the one. And so, no, I’m I’m I’m a student. I consider myself

23:18
beginner’s mind as an astrologer, even though I have a lot of experience. And

23:24
I’ll certainly my Gemini rising combined with all of my Aries forcefulness with

23:30
Pluto involved will sound like it knows a lot more than I really think I know.

23:36
Right. Um, what do you say? Because you have an MC in Aquarius, right? Yeah.

23:41
Would I mean that kind of makes sense in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean my Aquarius

23:46
midheaven with sun, Mercury, Venus, and Mars and the North Node all in the 11th

23:53
house. And Uranus, the modern ruler of Aquarius

23:59
in my first house, first planet rising. When people ask me my sign while I’m in

24:05
my Cancer moon denial mode, I just tell them, “Oh, I’m an Aquarian.”

24:12
That’s a good one. And they go, “Huh?” See, I make up words. Yeah. I’m an Aquarian. And I

24:17
don’t planets in Aquarius, but I have an Aquarius midheaven, four planets, um, and the North Node in the 11th house,

24:24
which is the house of Aquarius, and Uranus, the planet of Aquarius, uh, rising. And I also have Saturn closely

24:31
sexile Uranus. And so Saturn as the ancient ruler, you know, the traditional ruler of of Aquarius.

24:39
Um I’m just curious to think what do you how you feel with that Jupiter in 29

24:45
Capricorn cuz Pluto I like I like my Jupiter.

24:50
Um and um I am not how do I want to say

24:55
this without pissing people off? I I do not place a lot of use or value on um

25:04
traditional dignity and dability although I look at it and I understand

25:10
why it works and how it works. Um but I

25:15
think that many people who learn astrology through um the Vadic or in

25:22
particular the Henistic uh lens uh put way too much weight. I mean my Jupiter

25:28
in Capricorn is technically debilitated um because it’s in its fall because it’s

25:36
opposite Cancer where it’s exalted. Um, and Jupiter’s my only Earth planet in my

25:44
chart and I love it. And it’s and I’m the person who uh often when someone

25:51
saying, “Hey, Rick, do you want to?” I’m going yes before I hear what they’re asking. But my Jupiter and Capricorn is

25:59
the part of me that I don’t care what it is that someone presents to me. I can see what’s wrong with it. It’s not a

26:05
Virgo. This is what’s wrong with it. It’s more a sense of here’s where this

26:11
might not work unless we attend to this and that Jupiter in Capricorn at 29 and

26:17
a half degrees um I look at it as an Aquarius wannabe

26:23
you know it’s and it and it’s progressed into Aquarius but it’s still in

26:28
Capricorn and the other important thing about my Jupiter at 29 and a half

26:34
degrees of Capricorn is that it’s partile meaning same degree quinks to

26:43
Saturn. Yeah. At 29° and 50 minutes Leo and that Saturn is

26:49
retrograde. So my Saturn Jupiter Saturn quint kunks um is within a third of a

26:57
degree of orb and that’s really really tight and that aspect I was going to say

27:04
it makes me crazy but it really makes people around me crazier than it makes me as aspects often do because we get

27:11
used to what we have in our chart even if it’s crazy and you know and that Jupiter Saturn quunks basically if I

27:19
have a deadline line, you know, for, you know,

6:00
a.m. tomorrow morning and

27:25
some and and I was going to do it, let’s say, um, tonight and someone at

10:00

27:30
says, “Hey, there’s a party you want to go.” And I’ll go, “Yeah.” And I’ll figure out I’ll come home at

27:36

3:00
in the morning or 4 in the morning and still, you know, meet the deadline or at least be close to it. And that’s

27:42
that that imbalance between you know the discipline which I often lack but

27:50
somehow pulled together in the last moment. I have a standard thing that I tell people that I work

27:56
with in various organizations and that is if there’s a deadline um if I’m not

28:01
timely I just don’t want to be the last person to submit. Meaning I don’t want to hold up the entire show. Um but um

28:10
but I often do kind of run into deadlines and push them. Um I mean but I wrote a daily horoscope column 7 days a

28:17
week for 20 and a half years that I had a deadline at

6:00
a.m. every

28:24
day. I mean a real deadline that I had to have things done that were seven days

28:29
out from that day because this all went into a Google online database went

28:34
through an editorial process. I mean, I had, you know, 10 to 20 million readers a day when I was writing this column.

28:41
Um, it was the daily horoscope column on on Google, on Yahoo, on AOL, on MySpace, The Quincunx Magic

28:49
LA Times, Huffington Post. I mean, if you read your hor daily horoscopes

28:55
somewhere between 2002 and 2020 online,

29:00
chances are whether you knew it or not, they were mine. I mean, other people were writing, too. But my point is is

29:07
that I would often be writing still at 5 in the morning because I didn’t do it

29:13
earlier in the day when I could have. And I’m not saying I’m proud of this part of me. Like I said, it makes people

29:19
I work with often, you know, crazier than it makes me. But but I’ve learned

29:26
over the years as one learns from a Quincx. Often you learn something that

29:31
you can do from something that just seems to be a total annoyance. and irritation. And one of the things that I

29:37
do really well is I compress time and I can do a crazy amount of a lot in a very

29:43
little time. And I sometimes envy um even though I do try to emulate and

29:49
although I’ve gotten better at it um using more sensible Saturn, but you

29:55
know, my Saturn aside from its sexile to Uranus is um is a square and a half or a

30:01
half a square to pretty much everything in my chart. It’s it’s definitely I mean as a kid with the Uranus rising and a

30:08
problematic Saturn, I could be reading the best book I ever read. If it was assigned in class, I’d stop reading it.

30:15
Yeah, I see. That’s And again, I’m not saying I’m proud of this, but that’s part of the rebellion,

30:20
you know, that that I carried through at least a lot of my life. No, but I think you just you just gave us a positive

30:28
look outlook for Quinces because sometimes, you know, they are labeled as like annoying and no, you I’m I’m stuck

30:34
here or and you just gave us an example of how it can actually work out pretty

30:40
well. But I but I also think Myra I also think that quincxes are actually not

30:47
very well understood because a quinc with a one or twoderee

30:54
orb either early or late is actually going to be more functioning like a

31:00
bquintile or a tricepile and I know a lot of traditional astrologers you know

31:06
don’t use these harmonic aspects many of which were invented were discovered by

31:11
Johannes Kepler. Um, but the but the point here is that quunkses are a bit of

31:18
magic. They occur at the mathematically least stable point in the 360° cycle

31:27
because there’s no other point in that in the cycle that is so resonant. Um,

31:33
you know, a quink kunks is five quinks 12. It’s 51 12ths.

31:39
Okay. Okay. And and that’s 150 degrees. Mhm. 144 degrees is two- fifths.

31:47
That’s a by quintile. 154 and change is 37ths.

31:54
That’s a tricepile. And so if you understand harmonics, if

32:00
you understand aspects as harmonics, meaning as music, the music of the spheres is that the lower the harmonic,

32:08
the louder the note. That’s why an octave, which is a second harmonic, sound so resonant, whereas other notes

32:15
played together don’t sound quite as resonant. They can get lost. And so the thing about the Quinc Kunks is it’s

32:22
totally unstable because it’s halfway between the fifth and the seventh

32:27
harmonic and it’s a 12th harmonic. It’s 51 12ths. So the Quinc Kunks is irritating because we can’t hold that

32:34
position because it wants to flip to the to the two- fifths or flip to the 37ths.

32:42
And so one of the key one of the most used key words for Quincs is adjustment

32:47
or irritation. It’s irritating because we can’t hold that position.

32:53
I love it. That’s such good news for all of us who or well I I think I also misunderstood or still need to do more

32:59
readings or more classes about quinces because I think they are misunderstood and I have a lot of quinces in my chart

33:06
and it’s nice to hear like a different perspective like a really positive perspective about these aspects that um

33:12
you know in the end these are more important that the planet position or the houses I think but Rick tell us in

33:21
how was your experience with your first natal reading.

33:26
Somebody read your chart and what were your impressions? I’m guessing somebody read your chart at some point or

33:33
something. Yeah, I’ve had my chart done a few times. Um I think the very first time I was

33:40
probably about maybe about 26 or 25

33:46
and I’d already been studying astrology. Um, but this chart was was done for me

33:52
by someone who is a yoga teacher. Um, and um, and you know, I was pretty

33:59
amazed at what she could say about my chart. But in those days, chart readings

34:06
were very different than we do now. Um, they were more what the uh, tradition

34:12
refers to as a delineation. And a delineation basically is your son is in

34:18
Aries. It means this. It’s in the 11th house. It means that your moon is in cancer. That means this. It’s in the

34:24
second house means that your sun and moon are square. That mean and it’s basically breaking the chart down. And

34:31
so by the end of that reading, I had an outsider looking at my chart telling me what every planet and every house and

34:38
every aspect was in my chart. I when I do readings today, like many

34:44
astrologers, I’ll get through an entire reading and I may not even mention their sun sign or or or where such and such a

34:53
planet is because it it’s like you could spend hours pulling everything apart.

34:58
When I see a new client, I often I almost always ask, “Have you ever had your chart done before? Don’t tell me by

35:05
who, but when was it? And what do you remember from it?” And the most common answer is, “Oh, yeah. I had my chart

35:11
done blah blah blah blah by fill in the name of some famous astrologer and what do you remember? Oh, it was amazing. I

35:17
go, but tell me what you got out of it. What do you remember? Well, I don’t remember anything specifically. I just remember it was really good. And I

35:24
decided that if I had a client who was asked 30 years later, you know, did you

35:29
ever have a reading? Yeah. With who? Rick Lavine. What was it? That sucker said blah blah blah.

35:37
And and so the question becomes, and I think this goes back to an Albert Einstein quote, and if you’re talking

35:45
personal stuff, another thing that I should admit is that I am a quot. I’ve

35:50
been offered the cure, but I refuse to take it. Um, and I love quotes because

35:56
there are so many people who said things that I wish I said in ways better than I would say it. Uh but uh my boy Albert

36:05
Einstein, I say my in a non-possessive way. Um Albert Einstein said that 99% of

36:11
genius is knowing what’s important. And I had that sign above my desk for

36:17
years on a little poster because I think often when we do readings, um it’s very Early Readings & Configurations

36:24
easy to get lost in all the details. I know a lot of astrologers who will do a

36:29
reading for one year and they’ll talk about all the aspects that happen for that year. you know, on uh you know, on

36:38
October 17th, Mercury will be conjoining your natal Venus, blah blah blah blah.

36:44
And then on October 23rd, Saturn will be conjuncting your sun, blah blah blah

36:49
blah, and then on November 5th, Venus, as if they’re all the same thing, you

36:55
know, and so somehow the person leaves with their head filled with dates. And

37:00
then because let’s say Pluto is going to be conjoining or squaring your natal

37:06
moon in one year and a week, that doesn’t fit into the one year. And so

37:12
that’s never mentioned. And sometimes the most important thing in someone’s chart that when when you’re seeing

37:19
someone as a client, sometimes the singular most important thing happened last year or won’t happen for a year or

37:26
two. And so, um, I don’t remember what the

37:31
question was, but that’s my answer. No. What were your impressions when someone read your chart for the first

37:37
time that Oh, yeah. I was blown away, you know, and, um, and then I a couple of years

37:42
later when I was studying more seriously. Um, I had my chart read by an American astrologer named uh, Robert J.

37:50
Carl Bob, everybody knew him as Bob uh Janssky who wrote a number of books, one

37:55
on Quinc’s and that was the first time I realized, oh, I have a finger of God in

38:02
my chart, a yad. And so that I mean that I was like what 25 years old then. And

38:09
so for a good 50 years I’ve been particularly interested not just in yods

38:16
but in the larger class of configurations that are actually isosles

38:23
triangles. And an isosceles triangle is a triangle has two sides the same. A yad

38:29
you have a sex tile with two quinces. But if you open up the base of that to a square you have a square with two cesque

38:37
squares. You know, if you um open it up, if you close it down to a septile, you

38:44
have three points on a seven-pointed star, you have a septile and two tricep tiles. Or a five-pointed star, which may

38:52
be the most powerful of all the odds. You have a quintile, which is 72

38:57
degrees. That’s if you imagine a five-pointed star. You have a planet on

39:03
two adjacent points and a five-pointed star and then one on the opposite point.

39:08
So you have three at a five points on a five-pointed star. And you see that really exact in charts like William

39:14
Blake and and Mozart and and uh and poets and creators. I mean, uh, in in in

39:22
Carl Jung and Sigman Freud and writers, I mean, it’s just and and so you begin

39:28
to realize that astrology has been totally taken over and limited by a

39:34
patriarchal view of the world being material, the three-dimensional world,

39:40
which is based upon division by 12. And when you divide by five, you get the magic of the five-pointed star, the

39:47
feminine earth religions, the occult traditions or divisions by seven or nine

39:52
or 11. Um, and that’s where the magic begins to to happen.

39:58
That’s so interesting. Um, you’re giving you’re opening my brain because part of my job. Jeff Green Jeff Green

40:05
once told me Jeff Green once told me years ago, I mean like I don’t know 30 30 plus years ago. Jeffrey Wolf Green.

40:13
Jeff Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Green Jeffrey Wolf Green. It was Jeffrey Jeffrey.

40:19
Well, um, my Pluto is in the third house and it’s tr my sun Mercury, Venus, Mars

40:26
in the 11th. It is and I have Gemini rising with with my

40:32
horoscope ruler being Mercury also trining Pluto. Pluto in the third house

40:38
in Gemini’s house. And he basically looked at my chart. It was this was just casual. It wasn’t a reading. And he

40:44
said, “Yeah, you only have one purpose here on Earth, and that’s to blow people’s minds.” And that’s my goal.

40:50
That’s my goal. Oh, that’s so interesting and fascinating because I I think in my

40:57
chart there is like a there is a five point star, but one of the picss it’s

41:02
like not finished. It’s like this, you know? And if and if you were a client of mine, I would want to calculate within a

41:10
few degrees because there there’s usually a little bit of slop. I would want to calculate what where is that

41:17
missing point in the five-pointed star. Four out of four out of five points on a

41:23
five-pointed star I call a golden bowl because because quintiles are based upon

41:28
the golden mean, the divine proportion, which in art is the point of aesthetic perfection. and its beauty. It’s tied to

41:36
the Venus star. Um, and but four out of five points on a grand quintile. Um, is

41:43
a golden bowl. And I want to know what that missing point is because when transiting planets go through that

41:49
missing point or when you meet people with planets at that point, that resonates on a non-physical dimension

41:56
that actually is an is a soul attractor. And so, um, there’s a something there to

42:03
explore. Thank you so much for that. Thank you. Really, really, this is the the, you know, missing piece of the

42:10
puzzle for me. So, thank you. But back to you, Rick. By the way, by the way, by the way, the

42:17
missing piece of the puzzle is not the missing piece. It’s all the missing

42:23
pieces of the puzzle. And to pull the quotol back, um, Heraclitus, Greek

42:29
mathematician, philosopher said, “The hidden harmony is always better than the

42:35
apparent.” A ah, that’s nice. Let’s see. I will I will

42:41
definitely You were going to say something else. Yeah. I wanted to ask you because you’ve been doing astrology for I don’t know

42:48
like 55 years or more. Was there ever a moment in in which you felt like

42:54
astrology failed you or you got tired of it or or something like that? And how

43:00
was the moment? In my early mid30s, I basically reached a point where I thought, The Crisis & Comeback

43:07
what if I’m making all this [ __ ] up? What if we’re all making this up? And it really, you know, I know about, you

43:14
know, confirmation bias and I know about self-fulfilling prophecies and I know I

43:20
mean what if this whole thing is just totally made and I convinced myself that maybe this whole thing was a fantasy and

43:28
I took all of my astrology uh books um programs which I well it was actually

43:36
pre no I already had an astrology program at that time. Um, but I

43:41
basically took all my books, all my astrology stuff. In fact, all of my music and poetry, if I didn’t have to

43:49
make a living being an astrologer, I would just read and write poetry, quite honestly. That was that may be my that’s

43:55
as close as music can get to language. And I really like that aspect. Um,

44:01
but for about two years, I did no astrology at all. All my astrology books

44:07
were literally in cartons in a garage. Wow. What made you come back to

44:13
astrology? I um I got into what some people would

44:18
call an accident. Um I call it a purpose.

44:24
Um because often accidents accidents are are not accidental at all. Um, they’re

44:31
basically the cosmos saying, “You’re [ __ ] up. We’re taking over.”

44:40
And, um, and I, at that time, I was living in Southern California. Um, I was

44:45
working actually at the first store in the world that sold computer software

44:51
without selling hardware. So, this was in 1981, 82, 82, 83. Um and um uh and I

45:00
was very involved in computer software and computer distribution, software retailing.

45:07
And uh and my love at that time though was I was roller skating maybe five days

45:13
a week um down at the beach. I was a Venice Beach roller skater, you know, and every day I would, uh, before I went

45:21
into the office, um, I, uh, would go down to the beach and strap on my roller

45:28
skates and roller skate between Santa Monica Pier and Venice Pier and back and then I would jump in the water, bob in

45:34
the waves for a bit, have coffee on the beach, and then go to work. And I did that every day.

45:39
And one day I skated out to the end of Venice Pier. And it was actually at a

45:44
time in my life when I remembered even though I wasn’t doing astrology at the time that Uranus was moving through mid

45:52
degrees of Sagittarius and it was making a grand trine in my chart with Pluto at

45:59
mid Leo and all of my Arielium in mid Aries

46:05
and my descendant at 1516 Sagittarius that as as Uranus was moving through

46:12
that um over my descendant. It was making a grand shrine and I always thought that would be the cool time in

46:18
my life. So I was standing out on the end of Venice Pier on a gorgeous morning and I

46:25
looked out and I could see Catalina Island off the coast of Malibu and I took a deep breath thinking, “Wow, what

46:32
a cool life.” And as I took that breath, I was struck by not real but

46:37
metaphysical lightning and I fell standing still. You’re kidding me. Really? Wow.

46:44
And I blocked my fall with my right hand. Um, which I cut open. And I was

46:51
supposed to go I was actually going scuba diving the following day, but my hand was bleeding so bad and it was an

46:56
open wound. I actually drove myself to the emergency room, had it x-rayed, there was no break. They gave me a

47:03
tetanis shot and 5 days later I woke up with red streaks all the way up my arm

47:08
and I knew that wasn’t good. I went to I have a friend who is a doctor. Uh he

47:14
said, “Get your ass in here right now.” And I spent the next week and a half in a hospital in and out of a coma uh

47:21
having, you know, introvenous antibiotics. And uh normal people have a near-death experience that lasts, you

47:27
know, 3 minutes, 10 minutes. I was in and out for like three or four days. It was kind of crazy. But

47:35
when I came out of that, I had no use of my right hand. Now, I am a very

47:40
right-handed, leftbrained kind of guy. Uh, all those planets and Aries and fire

47:46
and fire and air stuff and um I I my arm was all bandaged up

47:53
and everything. I had to sleep with my arm elevated. Um I could not uh shave. I

48:00
could not eat soup. I couldn’t brush my teeth. I couldn’t button my shirt or zip

48:05
up my pants. I mean, I I I couldn’t drive my um standard shift, you know, gear shift in my car. I I I And during

48:13
that period of time, I was on a disability insurance. And over the

48:18
course of weeks and a couple of months, the books started coming out of the garage. [Laughter]

48:26
And it was from that period of reintegrating that that I realized that

48:32
this whole accident and from it you can see Let me get that in front of the camera. I landed on that spot right

48:40
there and I had operation, but this that that knuckle is is is is gone. I can’t

48:46
quite position it so you can see it. But this is a physical reminder that um

48:53
that although I could make a lot of money and be a corporate success, which is what I was doing at that point,

49:00
that that I was not allowed to do that. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I’ve heard in other I

49:07
think classes or interviews that you developed some software with some partner or something like that back in

49:13
the days, right? Or was it? Yeah. Well, I I actually was involved in software retailing and distribution and

49:22
I really I mean I wrote a lot of my own code when computers first began to happen. Um, but I’ve never written

49:30
astrology software. I was involved in a in a project. She’s I’m guessing this was 1980. I was involved in a project

49:38
with a British astrologer named Roger Elliot uh where we were actually using a

49:43
computer to uh create reports which was still relatively new at that time. Um,

49:50
but I’ve not ever written astrology software. Although, um, when I I

49:55
started, um, with my then astrology buddy and partner Jeff Jawer in 1999,

50:02
we started stariq.com, which was really one of the maybe first

50:08
two or three real astrology sites on the on the internet. It was around the same

50:14
time that Aloise Trindle um started Astrodento, Astro.com Lessons of the Soul

50:19
and um and we basically developed software. I didn’t write the software,

50:25
but I managed the development um of software that would basically send an

50:31
email out two or three or four times a month to a registrant two or three days

50:38
before the most important transits to their chart that month. Oh wow. And no one has ever duplicated that or

50:44
there have been attempts and and we were basically caught up in what what many people call the dot comb.

50:52
You know we uh we we had 17 full-time no 14 full-time employees and you know it

51:00
was costing us about about $50,000 a month just to keep our doors open in

51:05
development. and we had, you know, financing and and then the um entire

51:11
market in, you know, 20201 fell apart and and basically we just left that and

51:17
never went back to it. I lost interest. I mean, it was basically, you know, a year and a half or two of

51:24
doing nothing but working on that project. And no one’s ever really done it in the way that we conceived it, that

51:31
I conceived it, but that we really kind of began to make it happen. And um yeah,

51:37
and I’m not interested in that anymore. I have other, as we say, other fish to

51:42
fry. Not that I fish these days, but you know.

51:47
So, talking about, you know, all those other things. And

51:52
what do you believe your your soul is still learning in this lifetime outside

51:58
of astrology? Oh, how to be a human.

52:03
I don’t think there’s anything else that our soul, you know, well, it’s actually how to how to be a human while not

52:09
losing con connection contact with, you know, the cosmos. It’s

52:15
why I always say think cosmically, act locally because the cosmic part of it, let me get this

52:23
right. There we go. The the camera is weird. Okay, there we go. the the the

52:28
cosmic part of it, you know, is um is the spirit and the local part of it is

52:35
the spirit encapsulated in a three-dimensional body um the soul. And

52:41
so spirit and soul become part of why I think it’s so important for us to, you

52:47
know, keep the two of those keep the two of those together. And and I have to say also although you didn’t ask me and and

52:54
I’m glad you didn’t because it’s a question that everyone asks and that’s so why did you become an astrologer or

53:02
you know and and my answer is different. Most people say oh I became an astrologer because I thought it was crap

53:08
and I set out to disprove it and the more I studied the more I realized there was something there. Or I went to an

53:14
astrologer and it changed my life. It was amazing. or or my life was a mess and astrology explained. I mean my my

53:22
reason is very different and that is that my Gemini rising is

53:28
incurably curious and and and at age 19 I actually

53:36
honed the question that is still the question that drives me although some

53:43
you know nearly 60 years later I feel like I have a good handle on this at the

53:49
time that I began asking it. I really didn’t at all. And the question that I framed at age 19 was this.

54:00
How does meta become physical? Oh, wow. And I don’t mean meta meaning the

54:06
company. Um, but in other words, how does uh as you look around my space or

54:13
your space, you know, I have all these things, photographs of events and books

54:19
that I’ve read and memorabilia from different things in my life and different pieces of of of of artwork

54:26
that have meaning to me and and and just things and and photographs of

54:33
people, whether they’re parents or children or siblings or loves or

54:38
how do we what is it that magnetizes or creates this constellation? I use that word, you

54:46
know, considerably um or I mean I consider using that word um or I should

54:52
say it is a consideration that I use that word correctly is what I was trying to say. What is it that that that

54:59
creates this ability to constillate these things that we then call our lives? These things don’t exist. They

55:07
start from nothingness and somehow manifest into the three-dimensional

55:14
world through relationships, experiences, physicality,

55:19
location, parents, children, friends, lover, whatever.

55:25
and and and what is it that makes invisibleness, emptiness, nothingness

55:32
become somethingness? And astrology is not the answer, but

55:39
it’s the best consistent map that I’ve been able to find

55:45
because it’s ultimately based upon geometry. And here I am after not being

55:53
a geometry teacher. And anyone who’s taken any classes from me or you see how I work with chart interpretations, I’m

56:00
I’m a geometry teacher. Astrology is geometrical. It is sacred geometry. The

56:07
universe is manifest by things coming into our perceptual realms. And we need

56:13
to clarify that because um the fact is that scientists now understand

56:22
that that there is some 94%

56:27
of what’s out there is either dark energy or dark matter. We can’t see it,

56:33
perceive it, measure it, weigh it. We have no idea what it is. We just know it’s out there. And so when I talk about

56:40
how things manifest geometrically through sacred geometry and planets

56:45
become an artifact in that um the

56:50
question becomes you know what is that process and it is in my mind um uh

56:58
archetypally uh geometric based upon the planets and their resonances. Astrology & Beginner’s Mind

57:05
Yeah, it’s so interesting that you managed to I mean from your story, from what I’ve heard, I mean you like

57:11
psychology, geometry, um and all these sacred things and the

57:17
understanding of the met metaphysical and and astrology kind of like blends

57:22
all of those together. That’s why I thought okay maybe he it was he was pretty clear on his on his choice but

57:29
understanding the the meta as you say and the astrology behind the technical

57:36
you know educational part of the astrology the aspense but the really the what is it with the planets that you

57:44
know that the manifestation we see on our personal lives or that resonance this is the part that I I understand

57:50
you’re trying to um explain how has that journey been for

57:57
you in the understanding has it been a you know like have you I

58:02
mean I’m sure you have challenges but like maybe you felt misunderstood because not

58:08
everyone sees this part of astrology as you do like what can you tell us about that journey into understanding this

58:15
specific part of astrology and the meta and the physical yeah I you know I think a A lot of

58:22
people when they become familiar with my work, it resonates with them because my

58:28
work isn’t original. You know, it’s going back to the Robin Hood idea. I just know who to steal the, you know,

58:34
the brilliant thoughts from. Um, I mean, I I haven’t made anything up

58:40
other than the Mercury Gemini dance of connecting dots that other people hadn’t

58:46
connected. The dots are all there, you know. I mean uh um whether you’re

58:52
coming from a point of uh um you know Hindu or Buddhist uh you know

58:58
conceptualization or any of even the western mystical traditions or the ancient indigenous you

59:04
know pieces they’re they’re all there. um you know, Pythagoras basically, you

59:10
know, over 2,000 years ago, uh countered um Democrus who came up with this idea

59:17
that everything is particle-based atoms. Um and Pythagoras said, “No, everything

59:22
is vibration, you know, and I’m a Pythagorean. Everything is vibration.” Uh nothing

59:29
exists in the universe. No thing exists in the universe. Things are illusion. uh

59:36
things are what what Hindu uh u um uh

59:42
scholars would call maya which is the veil that prevents us from seeing what

59:48
real reality is and particles are you know whether it’s the particle of your

59:55
physical body or mine or planet earth or a computer or a refrigerator or or or a

1:00:03
car or anything. These are all vibrations that are just geometrically

1:00:10
held together by nodes because when vibrations crisscross one another, they

1:00:17
create what a scientist calls a nodal point. A a node is just a knot. light

1:00:23
ties itself up into knots where it crisscrosses itself and it impinges it

1:00:29
slows down enough that it impinges on our sensory mechanism. Um and I think it

1:00:35
was Albert Einstein who said reality is an illusion albeit a very persistent one

1:00:41
you know uh and I always think of Rob Hand uh who wrote I think in horoscope

1:00:47
symbols his first or second book I think um he wrote um uh astrologers used to

1:00:54
teach that Saturn is reality and Neptune is illusion

1:01:00
whereas now we know that Neptune is reality And Saturn is the illusion there was

1:01:06
one. The illusion there was one. Uhhuh. Okay. Okay. I got it.

1:01:13
You know what we see is not what we get. And so um yeah again I’m sorry but I

1:01:19
forgot what your question was. Um oh don’t worry I also forgot. But let’s jump to the next question we were

1:01:25
talking about. Oh yeah we were talking about how do you feel in that process of understanding this particular part of

1:01:31
astrology. I I’m never I’m I’m I’m double negative intended here. I’m never

1:01:36
not amazed at the extraordinary way people fulfill their imagery, the

1:01:43
imagery of their charts. Um it’s one of the magical things about doing individual chart uh

1:01:49
interpretation. Uh, you know, as you may know, I run an apprentice program and

1:01:54
every month we do uh a mystery guest chart where I bring a chart without a

1:02:00
name on it and we untangle the dynamics of the person without knowing who the person is. And yesterday, for example,

1:02:08
we did the chart of Martin Luther King and one of the people said, “God, this person, it’s like they have a dream that

1:02:14
they need to realize.” I mean, you know, uh, and and someone said, “Ah, I have a

1:02:19
dream.” and I just basically didn’t react to it because I didn’t want to give away who it was. But but there’s

1:02:26
something about how we take the archetypal energy of a chart and

1:02:31
manifest it in ways that an astrologer would never guess. And I love that because when you hear people’s stories,

1:02:39
they’re always so extraordinary and so beyond and outside of what you might

1:02:44
think if you just followed the words of this in that means this and this square

1:02:50
that means that [ __ ] It means whatever it is that you fulfill that

1:02:55
imagery with in your life. And I think that it’s very dangerous for astrologers

1:03:00
to assume that they know what any particular planetary position or aspect

1:03:07
is because there is no planetary position or aspect that operates by

1:03:12
itself because like the Hindus called Indra’s net, they believed the cosmos

1:03:19
was this net of pearls where every pearl at every nodal point at every knot. The

1:03:25
word no just means not in in Greek. Uh in Latin I I believe not Greek. Um that

1:03:32
every pearl every knot on the net when you looked into the pearl you could see

1:03:38
the entire net reflected in it. Oh wow. And this is referred to as Indra’s net.

1:03:45
And so everything is connected to everything. And from that standpoint,

1:03:52
um I’m always amazed at how people make those connections in their lives. Um I I

1:03:58
also um you know believe that you cannot look at a chart and tell whether a

1:04:05
person you know is a um uh is the Daly

1:04:10
Lama or a serial rapist. you know you there there is the the idea of um yoga

1:04:20
and I don’t mean sitting and doing postures I mean harnessing the power of the ox yoga comes from the word yoke the

1:04:28
yoke of the oxen and and and whatever the chart is you know I really I I have

1:04:35
a strong problem with people saying oh that’s a really bad chart no such thing as a bad chart it’s what we do with it

1:04:42
and granted Some charts are more difficult than other charts, but sometimes it’s the easiest charts on the

1:04:48
surface that create the hardest lives because the lives are empty and there’s nothing that the person gets to do with

1:04:54
it. This idea, you know, that that we get handed down from the ancient

1:04:59
tradition that squares are bad or difficult or afflictions and trines are, you know, grace or benefit or good um is

1:05:07
really dangerous because trrines are often where we get stuck. The energy flows so easily we can’t get traction.

1:05:14
We can’t grand trying you know you leave the marriage you change the job you move to another country and three years later Transits & Turning Points

1:05:21
your life is the same mess it was before you made all those changes you know whereas a square you know traditionally

1:05:28
you know Saturn square Mars horrible but a person who learns how to do their yoga

1:05:34
their discipline um and harness that energy that’s the person who’s going to

1:05:39
become the doctor who heals people’s lives or the whatever So we have to be

1:05:44
really careful about making assumptions based upon what we think we know. And I

1:05:50
often say that astrologers largely suffer from the same thing that people

1:05:57
who practice fundamentalist religions, modern western medicine and modern

1:06:05
science suffer from. And that is the belief they know more than they do. We

1:06:10
sometimes as astrologers think we have the answer in the chart. We have the questions.

1:06:18
No, that’s a beautiful that that you also remind us of this. It’s not only what we think, you I think it’s also

1:06:25
with astrology we need to constantly keep an open mind to new perspectives to new nothing is like determined you say

1:06:33
like oh it’s a square you know it’s just means this you know I think beginners beginner’s mind zen zen calls

1:06:39
it beginner’s mind yeah I think that’s really really important but Rick I need to ask you

1:06:45
about your chart because we have I think you chart is getting quite activated you

1:06:51
we have Saturn and Neptune entering Aries is they’re going to touch on your stellium. How do you feel about it? What

1:06:58
what do you think? What do you foresee for yourself? Uh tell us a little bit more. Maybe people find it interesting.

1:07:06
Well, okay. First of all, I think that when we look forward to an aspect

1:07:13
with fear, we actually help coalesce or

1:07:18
manifest that energy. I I’ve seen so many astrologers who go, “Oh my god,

1:07:24
Pluto’s coming to conjunct my natal moon. I’m I’m so freaked out. I’m worried about who’s going to die or how

1:07:31
I’m going to this or you know, I I don’t know how it’s going to manifest. I I

1:07:37
know that um I I know that in previous Saturn transits they always remind me of

1:07:44
how much work I have to do or how much work I should have already done which is

1:07:50
a bit of a theme in my life. I would like to think

1:07:56
that I’m doing some of that work proactively because Saturn will be in

1:08:01
mid Aries you know in a year year and a half or two. uh whereas Neptune it’ll

1:08:07
take another five or six years to you know to get close enough there to matter.

1:08:12
Um um but um you know I look I have six

1:08:18
planets in mid-c cardinal. So when Saturn, you know, hits hits maybe is a

1:08:23
bad word. When Saturn moves through um mid Aries or midcancer where my moon is,

1:08:30
Aries where my stellium is or mid Libra where my Neptune is which opposes my

1:08:36
Aries and squares my and squares my moon or mid Capricorn. These are times of

1:08:42
dynamic change. Okay. And um you know and I am eagerly

1:08:49
looking forward to uh managing and or

1:08:54
moving through these changes with as much awareness and grace as I can. What

1:09:00
that means can’t tell you yet but I’ll keep you posted.

1:09:05
um you know and and and again there’s a lot of other stuff of course going on during period of time

1:09:11
because um you know while Saturn is moving through

1:09:18
mid Aries we also you know have the planets at 0 1

1:09:24
2 3 4 you know of fire and air um also rattling their own signals and um and so

1:09:33
I I again Nothing happens in a vacuum. Everything is connected to everything else.

1:09:39
Yeah. Same as your Uranus. Now, entering your your rising sign, you know, that must be exciting, I guess.

1:09:45
And coming into my Uranus return, which is still a handful of years away because my Uranus is at 27 I think um of Gemini

1:09:54
and um but you know. Yeah. And currently Jupiter going to meet your

1:10:00
moon also, right? So that’s exciting. So I’m fat and happy.

1:10:07
Also, how was for you that transit of like Pluto moving into Aquarius touching

1:10:13
on your Jupiter? What would you say? Was there a lesson or a fear that you had and you overcome or overcame

1:10:21
or lesson? No, I actually I um I think that the Pluto uh on um my natal Jupiter,

1:10:30
which is really still going on because my progressed Jupiter, you know, is at

1:10:36
about one degree of Aquarius. Okay. Um and and I think that this is something that’s an interesting I don’t

1:10:43
want to say technique but something for astrologers to keep in mind who are do transit work and that is that often the

1:10:50
slower moving planets as they progress whether they’re progressing direct or

1:10:58
retrograde often suggests that a planet let let’s say um let’s say that Jupiter had just

1:11:06
turned retrograde when I was born and therefore Jupiter um now would have

1:11:12
retrograded from um let’s say 29° of c of of of Capricorn let’s say Jupiter had

1:11:20
progressed Jupiter had retrograded back to 27° of Capricorn

1:11:27
that would to me suggest that Pluto’s conjunction with my natal Jupiter in

1:11:33
Capricorn would have begun earlier whereas Now, because my progressed

1:11:39
Jupiter is at 1 or two degrees of Aquarius, even though transiting Pluto

1:11:46
is officially done with its conjunction, it’s still in the neighborhood, but it’s

1:11:52
still actually um part not partile, but perfecting its conjunction with my

1:11:59
progressed Jupiter. And so, that energy is still there. and and I feel a Beyond Astrology

1:12:04
widening a a universalization, a you know, a a growth to what it is that I’ve

1:12:11
been doing. Um uh you know um you you look at I did um a podcast uh um with

1:12:20
Amriit Sandu on Inspiring Evolution back in

1:12:25
January or February. Um you know it got over 600,000 views.

1:12:30
Oh my god. and you know and and that to me although I again I don’t think the planets make anything happen um

1:12:38
yes I I I think I think that that’s kind of part of the imi the archetypal imagery

1:12:46
of Pluto on on on Jupiter very interesting fascinating thank you for this Rick so what do you do when

1:12:53
you’re when you’re bored when you’re tired of astrology and you know you just want to have like a chill day and you

1:13:00
Oh, what do you do? Well, you know, for fun. Answer moon. I go to the kitchen and cook.

1:13:06
You You cook? Really? I love I love cooking. Why do you cook?

1:13:11
H anything. You could uh Jeff, my old astrology buddy, said that you could get

1:13:16
picked up by aliens who, you know, took you up into a spaceship and took your body apart, put it back together, uh

1:13:23
dropped you off on the side of a road in the middle of the desert where um where a a large Lincoln Continental driven by

1:13:32
these badl looking guys came, picked you, threw you in the trunk, and then opened up the trunk and rolled you out

1:13:38
in front front of someone’s house and they said 10 people in two hours dinner and you do it, you know.

1:13:46
Um, no, I like cooking. I like cooking anything. Um um but um I mean I love you know cooking

1:13:54
Italian stuff. I love cooking uh um I I I love flavors. I love Indian you know

1:14:00
uh Indonesian Indian it doesn’t matter. Um I I like and I

1:14:06
learned to cook because I like to eat and so the tasting thing is an important piece. Um, but I also play music. I

1:14:13
mean, whether I listen to music, um, these days I kind of hung up most of my

1:14:18
other instruments. I play, you know, flutes and recorders and Native American flutes and and, um, and I think there’s

1:14:25
one back there on a music stand. I don’t know if you can see it. It’s right there, I think, somewhere. Um, with

1:14:32
music and I So, I mean, I play a little bit and not as much as I want. I read.

1:14:37
Um, I I I go to the gym, not as often as I want. I have an little shoulder injury

1:14:43
that’s been bugging me, but I swim when I can. Um, I don’t mind doing sitting in a hot

1:14:48
tub every day for, you know, a half an hour, an hour if I can. I like walking. I like nature. I like hanging out with

1:14:55
friends. I like, you know, communicating. Uh, there’s a local coffee house where I do my, uh, monthly

1:15:02
astrology night. And I have friends. It’s kind of like our little local Cheers bar. There’s always some of the

1:15:08
same people hanging out there. So, um, you know, I I’ve probably left off some

1:15:14
important things, but um um and I love reading and writing poetry. I don’t

1:15:20
write much these days. You have a poetry book. No, I remember. Or some I’ve actually published a few books of

1:15:26
of poetry. Um and and often and often when I teach

1:15:32
um although I don’t have any po well I I don’t I don’t have many poems that are specifically astrological but I do have

1:15:39
poems that I use as part of my teaching just because they again uh poetry and

1:15:44
even when I teach often not so much when I’m doing an hour lecture at a conference but I’ll often use music

1:15:51
because you know music is is so important especially music with lyrics.

1:15:56
I love, you know, I I like music that has no lyrics, but I also am a lyric

1:16:02
person and have my list of five or 10 or 15 uh poets andor musical lyricists that

1:16:10
I really like their stuff and I’ll often use their work to make points in in in teaching that because again I can

1:16:17
explain. Yeah, that’s how I learned astrology with you. I remember when I took your first class, the foundations

1:16:23
one, you you you actually were playing even the piano for us to understand the how

1:16:30
you call the the the cordal structure. Yeah. Yeah. harmony. Yeah.

1:16:36
Yeah. Yeah. Those harmonics and the harmonics. Yes. Yes. I remember that. And I I played the piano and I was like,

1:16:42
“Oh, wow.” Like, you know, it makes sense now. because it was such a fun class where you were mixing

1:16:48
a astrology with music and you were actually playing the pianos. That was really fun. But so I’m assuming maybe

1:16:55
I’m making a wrong assumption but when you will feel like lost or sad or something like that, what do you do? You

1:17:01
you go back to music or do you have like a drug drugs?

1:17:10
No, I I I I have a claim to fame and that is I’ve probably smoked more pot in

1:17:16
my life than, you know, cannabis than many people, but I’ve never smoked it legally and it’s been legal here where I

1:17:22
live for 20 years now. So, um I I you know, these days, I mean, my

1:17:28
drugs of choice are red wine and, you know, and and caffeine.

1:17:34
Um yeah, but um uh You know, I

1:17:40
I don’t think I have a simple answer. I mean, music, hanging out with friends, sometimes, you know, the cancer moon

1:17:46
just, you know, being quiet, you know, sometimes just going away from it all. Um, and then with so many fire planets,

1:17:53
sometimes, you know, I that it motivates me to do something about something.

1:17:59
Uh, but yeah, that that that varies, you know, and I, you know, I keep my life is

1:18:06
pretty full. I mean I have a lot of things coming up that I’m looking forward to. Um as you may know I do an

1:18:12
annual retreat in Goa India that’s a twoe um initiation into astrology for

1:18:19
whether it’s for beginners and practicing professionals. It’s complete one end of the spectrum to the other and

1:18:27
um and I’ll be back there in November 20th through December 2nd of this year.

1:18:33
And and there’s still a few spots left. We have I we I think we have 25 people signed up and I think we have room for

1:18:39
about 30. Um it’ll fill up, but if anyone’s interested, this would be your time to go to heaven earthworkshops.com

1:18:47
because that will fill up. And then, you know, aside from other conferences, I’ll

1:18:52
be speaking at the Kepler Symposium in Niagara Falls. Um doing a master class

1:18:58
on astrologer as agent of change, social social agent of change. Mhm.

1:19:04
And I’ll be doing a um the keynote address for the conference on the future of astrology.

1:19:10
Um and then I’ll be doing a 3-day intensive and chart interpretation at the OPA, that’s the organization for

1:19:17
professional astrology conference in outside of Salt Lake City, Utah, up in Astrology & Humanity

1:19:22
the mountains um uh in Park City, outside of Salt Lake City. Um that’s in

1:19:28
mid-occtober. And then next spring, actually in March, I’m going to be on a

1:19:34
two-eek AGN uh C cruise that’s going to be it’s it’s it’s called the mystery

1:19:42
school cruise and um and I’ll be one of about a dozen speakers. Um it’s a luxury

1:19:49
it’s the top end of the cruise, you know. Um and we’ll be our ports of call.

1:19:55
We sail out of Athens and we’ll be going to Cit and Corfu and some spot in Turkey

1:20:02
and you know down the AG and and then back up and um and I’m really excited

1:20:09
about that and if anyone’s interested in in that um they should just contact me

1:20:15
directly. That information is just coming out in the days ahead. Okay. Um but that’s exciting and that’s the

1:20:22
mystery school cruise. Mr. School, that’s something that’s somewhere I can

1:20:27
go. So, yeah, I’m gonna bother you with that later on because it’s not too far from where I live. The other ones are

1:20:33
like, you know, Niagara Falls, not too far, but and this and and and I’m

1:20:39
excited about that because I’ve I’ve never been to that part of the world. I’ve been, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Greece and Turkey. I mean, my

1:20:46
dream to go to Greece and it’s just, you know, like it’s not too far, but I’ve just never done it. So this is the

1:20:51
perfect excuse for my 40something birthday coming up sometime. Rick, it’s

1:20:57
been such a pleasure. Is there anything you want to you know tell the audience about astrology as you know you know we

1:21:05
are in this era where there are many many people joining this the knowledge

1:21:10
of astrology. Is there anything you want to remind us or also to know about astrology and where where it’s going?

1:21:18
Yeah, I think that the most important thing is that knowing about astrology is useless unless you do something in your

1:21:25
own personal life with it. And you know, it’s it’s it’s the this part. It’s the

1:21:30
it’s the act locally. And act locally can be as simple as dealing with your

1:21:37
own shadow [ __ ] that we all have. I mean, I anyone who knows me knows that. I mean, again, this is my

1:21:43
hyperfunctional Gemini ascendant. I have this image out there of people who don’t know me but know me from my, you know,

1:21:51
ascendant. Um, you know, I have just as much [ __ ] and shadow stuff as anyone.

1:21:56
and and it’s not always easy to work at, but that’s where

1:22:04
Jung in his last book he wrote before he died, I think in 1955 or 56, um he wrote a book called The

1:22:12
Undiscovered Self, a little thin little book, maybe 120 pages. Uh and in it he

1:22:18
said that world peace will never come from politicians um running around the

1:22:24
world and people signing treaties. Pol world peace will only come when the

1:22:30
people living in the world find peace within themselves. That basically war

1:22:37
comes from a projection of unresolved [ __ ] And of course, we are at a place

1:22:44
right now where there’s a lot of people who are holding on to denials of things

1:22:49
that are very important and making their projections, you know, really complicated. Um, I’ve quoted recently

1:22:57
many, many times Jackson Brown, who’s one of my go-to lyricists. I don’t know

1:23:02
if you know the work of Jackson Brown. Um, but he wrote a song in the early 70s

1:23:08
um called Before the Deluge. And in it, one of the verses, it’s a

1:23:14
longer song and it’s worth listening to. You can find it on on YouTube with lyrics. Um, but one of the verses goes,

1:23:22
“Some of them were angry at the way the earth was abused by the men who learned

1:23:28
how to forge her beauty into power, and they and they struggled to protect her

1:23:34
from them only to be confused by the magnitude of the fury in the final hour.

1:23:43
There’s a lot of people old.” Huh? That’s a song, right? That’s that’s one verse from a song called Before the

1:23:50
Deluge. And the concept is basically um you know who will be alive after the

1:23:57
deluge you know basically um it’s the idea that people went back to nature and

1:24:04
people did this but there’s still there’s stuff going on and and and the

1:24:09
chorus of it you know is basically um about you know let the music you know

1:24:16
you know drift up to the sky you know let the buildings let the music keep our spirits high, let the buildings keep our

1:24:23
children dry, you know, you know, let things be revealed as they are, you

1:24:28
know, but it’s it’s a very powerful song. But this idea that we are at a point right now where we will not be

1:24:36
able to go back to and you know that like things in our personal lives, there are things that happened at some point

1:24:42
in our lives that created events where we went that way and we can never go back to that point to go that way. We

1:24:50
can make other corrections, but they never can redo or undo what’s been done.

1:24:55
And we’re at one of those points right now that really on a larger evolutionary

1:25:00
scheme really goes from I think really the mid60s all the way up to the 2030s

1:25:08
that that that where humanity andor life on

1:25:14
Gaia life on planet Earth will never be able to redo or undo what we’ve done in

1:25:20
this period of time and on a closer to home meaning closer to now. I would say

1:25:26
that 2024 25 26 is its own turning point for a lot

1:25:34
of reasons that I’m sure you and every other astrologer who you’ve interviewed has talked about and I’d be happy to

1:25:41
come back and talk about them sometime in the future specifically. But obviously there are things going on

1:25:47
right now that in my mind it’s almost like taking two metals like copper which

1:25:54
is beautiful and pliable but not very useful because you know unless it’s for

1:26:00
art or beauty because it doesn’t hold its shape. It’s malleable. And let’s say

1:26:05
tin which is brittle but bendable. But when you mix copper and tin and you melt

1:26:12
them together, when they solidify, they make bronze. And bronze is strong and lasts and and

1:26:20
is not undone, whereas copper can be reshaped and remelted and so on. And I

1:26:26
think that culturally we’ve been at a point now for about a year or so where

1:26:32
we’ve been copper and tin and the two have been

1:26:37
melting together and they’re beginning to solidify and based upon what we do

1:26:44
right now or don’t do. And when I say do, it’s where we create allegiances.

1:26:51
Who we support in our lives both personally, emotionally, spiritually, and politically. How we spend our money.

1:26:59
Um um what what politicians that represent us in whatever governments we

1:27:05
live in and and what we say to them and how we communicate with them, whether it

1:27:10
be by phone or by email or whatever. It’s the what or what some people are out on the streets um doing what they

1:27:17
would do. Other people are supporting them. Other people are quietly doing research or doing podcasts or whatever.

1:27:25
But we all have things to do and if we don’t do it now in a year or two, it’s going to be too late and that’s the

1:27:31
important thing to understand. Wow. Thanks for that. And guys, I’m going to leave the

1:27:38
think cosmically, act locally. Exactly. And you know, even when Mercury is retrograde,

1:27:44
now I understand the phrase better because you explain it now in this interview because before I used to think

1:27:51
I had a different p conception of the quote, but now I’ll tell you what act locally means.

1:27:56
Act locally means hold the door open for someone who has two par two two bags

1:28:01
carrying out of a store. That’s acting locally, right? You know, it’s someone drops something, pick the [ __ ] thing Collective Consciousness & Closing

1:28:07
up and say, “Here, you dropped this.” I mean, it’s the littlest things, but it all also has to do with living with

1:28:15
integrity. It has to do, you know, and I would be the first to admit that for me

1:28:21
sometimes in my life that has been and sometimes is a struggle. I work at it,

1:28:26
you know, and and it’s something that if we’re not acting locally, why bother

1:28:32
faking all this other cosmic [ __ ] Exactly. That’s what I got from you with

1:28:37
the quote because it’s like think cosmically but bring it to your like

1:28:43
your dayto-day body whatever is playing. I remember do you know do you know that the writer Carolyn Mace uh do you know

1:28:50
who that is? She wrote a number of books. She was a medical intuitive uh um

1:28:57
wonder brilliant lady, brilliant writer. And I saw her talk once a few years ago

1:29:02
and she looked at the audience and she said, “You have no right being out in

1:29:07
the cosmos until you take care of your own stuff.” There you go. Exactly. I mean, we’re all

1:29:15
crazy looking for astrology and and answers in our charts and stuff, but as you said before, it’s not going to be

1:29:22
useful unless we start with ourselves, like you know, the person in front of

1:29:27
the mirror. No. So, thank you. And and the person and

1:29:33
not not only the person in front of the mirror obviously, but also the person

1:29:38
that is at the desk next to us at work or the client that we’re seeing or our

1:29:45
spouse or our parents or our children or our siblings or anyone else we the the

1:29:52
waiter or the waitress. I mean, here’s the thing that is like, how do you interact with people who can’t do any

1:29:59
good for you in your life beyond the mo that moment? And and it’s that is often

1:30:05
the most telling when you see people who are rude, you know, or unconscious.

1:30:10
Um I mean, I I’m not perfect here, but I’m the person that, you know, when I

1:30:16
see the postman delivering letters, I’ll go, “Hey, thanks.” You know, you know,

1:30:22
obviously, you know, it’s it’s there’s a limit to what we do or what we say, but

1:30:28
we never know how a simple interaction might then become viral for that person

1:30:34
that may turn around and say something to someone else that might make someone else’s day and save someone’s life. We

1:30:40
don’t even know exactly. We always have the power to make a difference. I think it’s just that we forget it. Um uh Rick lastly it

1:30:49
just came to me um just one question about the collective consciousness because you were talking about it and

1:30:55
how we are in times where you know there are certain groups of people or people

1:31:00
or whatever you know trying to kind of like manipulate this thing but do you

1:31:06
think that we that us the majority if our if we change or how can I explain

1:31:13
if we change our our consciousness as a collective and we stop being afraid and we stop

1:31:18
being lazy and blaming mom, dad, the government, the doctor, whoever it is.

1:31:24
Do you think we can really make a difference? Because some people I see them especially here kind of like giving

1:31:31
up in the sense that we try but like well that’s what they want us to do.

1:31:38
Mhm. I mean the whole politics of authoritarianism,

1:31:44
of fascism, of competitive patriarchal dominance, colonialism, all the words

1:31:50
that we all know. All of that is based upon a Roman concept of divide and

1:31:56
conquer. You know, it’s all based upon, you know, get people to fight against

1:32:01
each other instead of who’s in charge and get people to basically be feel like

1:32:08
it doesn’t matter what they do, so why bother doing anything? Just live out your life quietly and then go back to

1:32:14
sleep. There’s a wonderful roomie poem, you know, about the the world waking up the morning and it’s really a metaphor.

1:32:20
You know, you hear people coming and going, “Do not go back to sleep.” blah blah blah blah this noise and that noise

1:32:27
do not go back to sleep and that’s really uh I mean they whoever the hell

1:32:33
they are not you not me not anyone who’s here listening to this allegedly but

1:32:39
they want us to go back to sleep and part of what they do is they create

1:32:44
diselusionment which often can lead to disouragement and remember diselillusionment is not a

1:32:52
bad thing Illusion is Neptune Illusions are not untrue. They’re just not yet

1:32:58
manifest. You know, a dream is a wish your heart makes. And so when we have an

1:33:04
illusion, when we follow that illusion and apply Saturn to it, Saturn takes

1:33:10
Neptune’s dreams and can not always, but it can make them real. We become

1:33:17
disillusioned when the dream is not real. And it’s okay to see that a dream is not real.

1:33:25
That the world we’re living in when we gauge it against what the ideal situation is, it’s not okay. It’s okay

1:33:32
to be disillusioned. But it’s not okay to let that disillusionment lead to discouragement

1:33:39
because courage coming from the Latin cur from French the heart you we can be

1:33:44
disillusioned but if we lose heart then we’re in trouble. Oh that’s beautiful. Thank you for that.

1:33:51
And guys, I’m going to leave the song below so we can end this video and this interview in in a higher note and with a

1:33:58
beautiful song by Jackson Brown. I’m going to leave it below if you want to hear it or just read the lyrics to get

1:34:04
some inspiration. Rick, thank you so much for your time for sharing everything all of this with us. I hope

1:34:09
to have you back here to keep talking about your chart, you know, or anything else these interesting times we’re

1:34:15
living. And I really I I have no words. Thank you so much for being here. I

1:34:20
don’t know if there’s something you want to remind the audience before we go. No, just thank you for doing what you’re doing. If anyone’s interested in

1:34:27
studying with me, they can find ways on Patreon. patreon.com/reickloavine.

1:34:33
And um beyond that, have fun, think cosmically, act locally.

1:34:38
Thank you so much. I will leave his details below for those who want to study with him. I obviously recommend Rick because he was my first

1:34:45
teacher and still learning from him. So, I will leave the details below. Thank you for being with us and see you in the

1:34:52
next episode. [Music]

1:35:04
Can I ask you Oh my god. I If you can do a backup of the recording, do you know

1:35:10
how to do that or not? Um, if not, don’t worry. I, you know,

1:35:15
well, no, I know. Hold on. allowed to record onto computer. Yes, I think I gave you permission. Yeah.

1:35:23
Um and I it appears Let me just make sure Paul stopped recording. Um

1:35:31
yeah, yep, I am recording. And I’m recording on my computer so I can pop that up to a

1:35:37
Google Drive if you need or something. Yeah, just in case. You know what? Because uh you never know.