0:05
Finding astrology even as an adult kind of put everything in place. It saved me
0:11
from being lost. Empowered me.
0:19
You know if I charge money to me it’s about investing in astrology.
0:26
It’s about supporting research. It’s about making sure there’s financial
0:33
backing to a very important system that helps humanity. And when I
0:40
am on stage, it’s not about it’s not about me, it’s about astrology.
0:50
Well, Scorpio sun and cancer rising with the moon in Gemini in the 12th house
0:57
in the 12th house. But for you, how was your personal experience as a Gemini
1:03
moon in the 12th house? Is it challenging or I think that it it captures to some
1:10
extent what I went through. I had to
1:15
doubt myself first like is there something wrong with me?
1:22
When I was in Israel and in my early studies, I went to an astrologers to get my chart
1:30
read and he was the big name. He was looking at my moon, which is ruler of
1:37
the ascendant in the 12th house, and for an hour and a half or so, he told me how
2:27
Welcome back to another backstage astrology episode. My name is Mariam Medina and today I’m so excited to be
2:35
here with Maurice Fernandez. Maurice, you have a very very long extended h
2:41
there are many things to say about you but first of all how are you today?
2:46
I’m very good thank you. Just came back from travels adjusting to time zones but
2:54
in in good spirit and full of uh inspiration.
3:00
Thank you so much for being here and really it’s a big honor. I follow your work for for some years right now and it
3:06
was just funny to find out you also lived here in Israel. So can you tell us
3:11
what brought you here or what’s the connection? My uh parents um I was born in Africa.
3:20
Uhhuh. And I lived there for until I was a teenager and then my family moved to
3:26
Israel and that’s where I first got in touch with astrology really.
3:33
I mean in a more serious way because I was always interested even as a young
3:38
child. So yeah, um you know there’s something about Israel that is very unique and of
3:48
course people are very polarized today but if
3:53
we just look at the geography how it
3:58
is the gate between Africa, Asia, Europe you know it’s always been a very u
4:06
powerful place and it’s no wonder I mean maybe it is a wonder that there’s
4:12
a lot of fighting because it’s such a powerful place you know
4:18
there’s no oil there’s no diamonds you know you you wonder why
4:25
it is so precious so there’s some kind of spiritual force that I feel is there
4:32
and creates uh both wonder and tension
4:38
But I I feel like it it definitely was, you know, a a place where East and West
4:49
were meeting um many people coming from Iraq, Iran,
4:56
and then from Europe, um from North Africa.
5:02
So there’s you know a very rich culture and and I think
5:09
very deep astrology was actually there. Um so I was I was really um introduced
5:16
to good teachers that eventually led me
5:23
to get involved with evolutionary astrology which is the
5:29
you know the orientation that I follow today. What a story. Well, for those who don’t
5:36
know Maurice Fernandez, he’s an internationally respected evolutionary astrologer, author, teacher with more
5:44
than three decades of experience. Right? Am I saying it right, Maurice? You’ve been everywhere.
5:49
You’re teaching. You also uh served as a president of OPA, which is the
5:55
organization of professional astrologers if I’m not mistaken right. Um, astrology.
6:01
Astrology. So probably you already know him. He is also an author. He has a really really
6:07
long CV. You can go to his website and read it because I don’t want to bore you. I want to get to know Maurice. Maurice,
6:14
what was happening when astrology found you or when did you start getting
6:21
interested in astrology? Really? Yeah. um on my nodal return really
6:28
that’s when I took steps to take a class that was
6:35
more thorough. So I was always interested as a child.
6:40
My mother had sunshine astrology for children.
6:47
What books and as a Scorpio I felt like this book
6:54
really got me, you know, it understood me better than
7:00
my parents and my friends and whatnot. So I I understood this kind of um
7:09
I don’t know on the one hand intensity and fascination with death and all kinds
7:18
of things that are taboo because you know we don’t talk about
7:24
death with a with a kid and and I was fascinated by that. So uh you know that
7:31
book was my little bible. Wow. Um but then you know I forgot about it
7:38
was a teenager did my crazy things and I met a friend who was also very
7:46
much into astrology. So we started talking about it and then joined a class
7:52
and then one of the things that that that happened during my nodal return. when I
7:59
was about 18. And it’s interesting my nodes
8:07
are in Leo Aquarius. So this was kind of a I I do see
8:14
you know Aquarius representing the stars. Uhhuh. So
8:19
that was you know a deeper initiation that then unfolded to a professional practice.
8:29
And that happened in South Africa or or here in Israel?
8:34
Um not South Africa. I I was in central Africa. I was born in a place called
8:42
Burundi. Ah Bundi. Um you know it’s it’s landlocked and and
8:50
nobody not not many people know about it. But I I don’t know. I was you know
8:55
as a kid I was in Bundi. Um when I took
9:00
when I was 18 I was already in Israel. So yeah you you were growing up across
9:06
different cultures. So how did that shape the the astrologer you eventually
9:12
became? Oh, um, you know, I loved what I was
9:18
studying and I was telling everyone I’m studying astrology
9:25
and so people started asking me for readings
9:32
because uh I was I was very enthusiastic and open about it and and like I said
9:38
there was a lot of curiosity and um so that that got me started.
9:45
start in I was at the time more involved you know with artistic
9:52
studies. I was into sound engineering and
9:58
working in studios um but doing you know occasional readings
10:05
on the side. And then I think one of the important milestones is that
10:14
a lady who interestingly
10:21
um had her son on my ascendant and her moon on my son and her moon and her
10:28
ascendant on my moon. I mean to the degree like we had
10:33
all these ascendant sun moon changedable different signs but
10:40
correlating to one another. She told me you teach me astrology
10:46
and of course I was uh I was you know not very seasoned. So, at first I told
10:55
her to find somebody else, but she told me um because I was
11:02
speaking French. Mhm. And she was French, she told me that she
11:07
couldn’t find somebody else, it had to be me. And so I kind of jumped in the water and u the rest is history. So I uh
11:19
you know I I did more and more readings. I started teaching classes and everybody,
11:26
you know, was intrigued, but from a professional standpoint, it was not
11:34
something anyone would consider to be financially sustainable, right, where I could make a living. So, I got
11:41
that whole thing about it’s not a job. What are you doing?
11:47
Um but you know I just went with it
11:53
and um it was so deep. It was so transformative. I will say
12:00
looking back that it it saved me from
12:10
being lost. Oh. because even though you know I I had
12:15
other interests, um
12:22
having that spiritual foundation finally made sense just like as a kid,
12:29
you know, that I could find refuge in a deeper
12:35
understanding of myself. um finding astrology even as an adult
12:41
kind of put everything in place you know I was not I found the confidence you
12:47
know that by the very fact that people told me it’s not a job and I knew
12:54
it’s what I’m supposed to do um
13:00
you know it it it brought basically um
13:05
empowered me So, oh that’s beautiful. Also, you were mentioning that you know your your your
13:12
mom or your your parents were buying these uh sun sign books. So, your
13:17
parents were into the spiritual world or or how was there the the thing with your
13:23
parents and the whole astrology idea? No, they were not. I mean, they were not
13:28
opposed to it. They never told me, you know, anything against it and they
13:36
encouraged, you know, they they encouraged my freedom and my exploration, but they were not
13:42
interested in studying or they were not spiritually inclined. They were, you know, just
13:54
really not artistic particularly and not spiritual particularly. You know, my my
14:00
father was a very practical uh person. My mother was,
14:08
you know, mostly concerned about family. You know, very um
14:13
traditional in that sense. And do you have brothers and or or sisters? Were you sharing this um
14:20
astrology knowledge with them? What did they say? I have a brother who’s much more
14:27
scientific. Uhhuh. Um my sister was more interested
14:33
initially and you know really all my family they started they asked for readings you know
14:40
they wanted to know they were uh asking me what’s going on in the stars you know
14:46
why are they you know when is it a good time am I supposed to feel you know all
14:52
this kind of thing so most mostly superficial you know they they didn’t
14:59
go deep into the study, but they were again not opposed to it.
15:04
And um I I think that helped me,
15:13
you know, not having to face too much resistance. That’s beautiful. So was there like an
15:20
an author or a book that caught your attention that you said okay this is
15:25
worth spending some energy and time and if so which book and which author or
15:31
teacher? Yeah I mean my main teacher was Jeffrey Green. Uhhuh.
15:38
um when I was introduced to him by my teacher in Israel
15:44
and she used to travel to the United States to conferences
15:53
and I was uh definitely intrigued and then I went to the United States
16:07
other purposes, you know, for my artistic purposes. And I I went through a deep deep
16:16
transformation there, a deep spiritual experience
16:22
um that started with a crisis in a very typical scorpionic way. I kind
16:29
of lost everything I went for. Um and I you know I was in New York City
16:37
was a thick of a very very bitter winter very isolated
16:49
to do condundalini yoga and I I had nothing else so I did that
16:57
all the time. Um, and that led to
17:06
some kind of jolt, some kind of a
17:12
epiphany and physical transformation. It’s like, you know, when you look at
17:18
cartoons and you see, you know, the
17:24
nerdy boy turning into Spider-Man, you know, it was kind of this
17:31
transformation that the yoga was so powerful that it
17:37
literally made me want to fly off buildings.
17:44
um the energy was so strong that I couldn’t be in my body
17:49
and and that opened a lot of channels, spiritual channels and and of course
17:56
astrology was in the thick of that. So
18:01
that’s when I physically went to meet Jeff Green.
18:06
Wow. Who was in Seattle? I I was already corresponding with him. we were in
18:12
touch, you know, at the time through letters. Um, but I I went to Norwak conference
18:22
and I met him physically and it was that kind of moment when
18:32
you know time out of time kind of experience feeling of
18:37
very deep and long recognition. So and
18:43
and then you know it became very very very clear that
18:49
nothing else matters that this is my spiritual path
18:54
and I had no more distractions so to speak.
19:00
Um yeah everything was crystal clear. Um
19:06
I had immense willpower. Um it’s almost like things opened up,
19:14
you know, like the seas were parting. Uh so, you know, that’s basically
19:22
when I became really full-time astrologer and I continued to study with
19:27
him for uh several years and I started initially to teach his
19:35
class. Um I went back to Israel for a few years
19:42
and I brought you know his program there. I invited him
19:48
to Israel. He came to lecture and I invited another astrologer uh international Noel Till.
19:59
Um so these were you know new developments in the
20:06
country. Oh because it wasn’t done before.
20:11
And then gradually as I went through my own
20:16
spiritual progress I started to write about Neptune.
20:24
Why about Neptune? Yes. No idea.
20:30
Um this is part of this condalini experience and these channeling that
20:37
happened. Um it it happened very spontaneously and
20:44
unexpectedly. So I ended up writing writing writing
20:51
and writing things that I had no idea what they were until
20:59
um that’s what prompted me to return to
21:04
the United States in order to publish this you know it became a book basically
21:12
but you know English wasn’t my first language and even though I studied
21:17
English hard because I was studying astrology in English. Um,
21:24
writing is a whole different story. So, I I first published the book, you know,
21:30
it took about four years uh from the time I
21:35
wrote it to the time it came out in 2004.
21:41
But I was not pleased with the way it was done because
21:48
as I said it needed more editing. I needed more help and I didn’t have that
21:53
help. So um but I was glad it the book was out
22:00
because I needed to organize this knowledge. It needed to
22:09
it it needed to have its own stamp and it took another 14 years to publish
22:16
the second edition. That is the book that most people know
22:21
today. It was published again in 2018.
22:28
So the book has been around for a while. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been around and
22:36
it came in very um surprising ways and again something that
22:44
was both a blessing and and a difficult path because
22:49
as many people within the astrology community,
22:57
you know, often come against modern
23:02
astrologers because they say, you know, oh, you’re
23:08
making things up. Mhm. You know, you cannot trace this knowledge to
23:14
ancient, you know, traditional henistic
23:20
whatever source. And that’s true. I cannot trace it. But
23:27
modern astrology is also very ancient because
23:33
a lot of the spiritual concepts were imported from eastern traditions that
23:41
survived um you know the age of enlightenment,
23:46
the scientific revolution that rejected spirituality and you know if you go back to a grace
23:54
and henistic big time. You know, the soul, you know, Plato is all about the soul and evolution. And so, evolutionary
24:02
astrology is nothing modern. It’s just a modern
24:07
in a way um in the field of astrology, but it’s
24:13
really based on timeless wisdom. And I’m, you know, I wonder if
24:19
there were no evolutionary astrologer back in the days as well. It’s just that they you know we we don’t have any trace
24:26
of writings but a lot of the knowledge of ancient tradition was oral knowledge
24:33
you know it wasn’t written knowledge always so you know to
24:39
only rely on what we recovered um
24:47
you know literature that we recovered I think is is very partial.
24:53
And of course um the the 20th century saw people like
25:00
Carl Jung who were in involved with astrology. People
25:07
like Dne Rudy who were big thinkers you know they were not just astrologers but they were
25:13
philosophers and of course psychoanalysts. So this transformed the field of
25:26
and and turned it into a practice, an approach that is more
25:34
growth oriented than just an external
25:41
uh analysis of external events. as if you know we don’t have
25:49
a way to consciously um navigate our lives. So it’s the whole
25:58
you know it’s the whole debate about free will
26:03
fate and how they work together.
26:09
And what I wanted to, you know, my my bottom line is that um
26:15
speaking about the the Neptune book, um I don’t have quotes, you know, and
26:21
references like where did you take that from and and who did you know it’s
26:27
something that was started from a very clean slate
26:32
and that’s why um it it’s both,
26:38
you know, those who read did are often really inspired by it, but then others
26:44
are very critical of it because it’s uh
26:49
coming out of nowhere. Mhm. I can see. Do you have a like specific Neptune position in your chart?
26:56
Um is it Well, uh you know, at the time that I was
27:02
writing it, Neptune was on my north node. Uhhuh. Um I mean writing and publishing
27:10
you know those early 2000 Neptune was early Aquarius it was on my north node
27:16
then it squared my sun. Um so there was that when I first got
27:23
this kind of writing download Jupiter was in my 12th house.
27:29
So I associate ar from an archetypal point of view Neptune, Pisces and 12th
27:37
house. Again this is something that some astrologers look at it suspiciously
27:45
but it’s just you know for me it’s working you know it is reflected in many
27:55
years of practice and research. So having 12th house activations,
28:03
you know, has a Neptunian energy to it. So that Jupiter in the 12th um in Gemini
28:11
was part of this happening.
28:17
Oh wow. Okay. Yeah, that can be powerful I think with Gemini and Neptune. But
28:22
Maurice, do you want to share with us your sun sign, your moon, your rising sign so people, you know, get the vibe
28:29
more? Well, Scorpio sun
28:34
um and cancer rising with the moon
28:40
in Gemini in the 12th house. In the 12th house, how have you lived that moon in the 12th
28:47
house? Because the 12th house is often I don’t know everyone has a different version of it. Um but for you how was
28:54
your personal experience as a Gemini moon the 12th house? Is it challenging
29:00
or I think that it it captures to some extent what I
29:06
went through in the sense that
29:12
um you know having a Gemini moon in the 12 uh there was
29:18
a lot of multicultural exposure even in Africa
29:25
it was a melting pot you know you had a lot of expats from Europe, you had a lot of Asian from India and Pakistan and and
29:34
a lot of local African and and so we were constantly in this kind of Gemini
29:41
melting pot and moving to Israel even though you know it was completely
29:47
different context there was again a lot of that
29:54
mixture of different cultures different systems
30:00
and I you know that in the 12th house way made my
30:06
my feeling of living something very universal you know I never was attached
30:13
to a nation you know I’m this nationality I
30:20
have that passport I it it doesn’t mean much to me except that it helped me travel when I have to
30:27
pass immig integration, but that Gemini moon in the 12th is really feeling like um
30:36
uh you know this kind of universal identity. Um
30:41
and yeah, it was it was not difficult in that sense. the moment,
30:48
you know, when people initially, you know, were trying to pigeonhole me or
30:53
tell me, you know, so who are you and and where do you belong and and
30:59
why are you um you know, making friends with these foreigners?
31:05
Um that that’s when I got confused because to me that was natural. Like what are
31:11
you talking about? It’s not a problem to me. it’s a problem to you. But as a as a young child,
31:21
I I I had to doubt myself first like is there
31:27
something wrong with me? uh is there something wrong that I am
31:32
not you know into soccer and football
31:38
that this doesn’t interest me but I like to um grow plants and save animals
31:47
you know so I was a little bit different
31:54
and that’s why spirituality helped me because as as I was introduced to the
31:59
yoga into astrology. You know, my moon was very happy. You know, I felt at
32:06
home, right? So, I didn’t have, you know, terrible trauma or I didn’t have uh difficult
32:15
family experiences except for the, you know, kind of normal
32:23
um things that most people go through. Mhm.
32:28
Um, but I want to share something that later I understood may have also been
32:35
part of this kind of fate. Mhm. Of writing a book about the 12th house
32:42
and about Neptune. I when I was in Israel and in my early studies, I went to
32:49
an astrologologist to get my chart read and he was the big name.
32:58
He was very popular. He was the only one who was publishing
33:04
um locally, you know, news um kind of reports and booklets.
33:11
And so you know back in the day again no internet. So anything written anything
33:19
that was available was like gold.
33:25
And so I you know I scheduled this reading and you know for about an hour
33:30
and a half he was looking at my moon which is ruler of the ascendant in the 12th house. And
33:38
for an hour and a half or so, he told me how [ __ ] up I am, how um how I was
33:46
sabotaging myself. And I’m a like what 19 20 year old, you
33:54
know, just about to start my life. So this guy, you know, was going by some
34:00
very outdated idea that the 12th house
34:05
is some kind of prison. And that’s his reading.
34:12
And so, you know, when I came out of that reading, I felt very empty.
34:17
Luckily, it didn’t discourage me to continue.
34:22
Um, I knew that he was not a good astrologer. you know,
34:28
from then on I kind of broke a lot of myth about famous astrologers because
34:34
um it he didn’t know how to read a chart.
34:40
So, you know, I forgot about it. I kind of moved on and went to continue my
34:49
studies. But then, you know, I ended up writing about the 12th house. Mhm.
34:54
And not it it wasn’t like, oh, I’m going to show him it, you know, it was
34:59
completely unrelated, but at the same time, I can see how
35:06
something in the ether was in motion to kind of bring a new
35:14
understanding about the 12th house because it’s so
35:19
brutalized, you know, it is so badly interpreted. in most astrology books. It
35:26
is scary and it’s hurting astrology. So I think my experience is not unique.
35:34
I think many people who have strong 12th house energy
35:41
end up having bad readings because there’s not
35:46
enough about it. Well, I have to say that’s part of, you know, how I got to know your work because I have two
35:53
planets in the 12th house and the first thing I heard was doom and like doom and
35:58
gloom and and I was like, “Oh, no.” Like, “No way. There has to be something, you know, like and then I
36:05
that’s how I know about you and and obviously your work and and the book and everything. So, thanks for that. It’s
36:11
been really useful to all of us.” So, thank you. I think it’s a great great job. But tell us more
36:18
when you started doing your first readings probably first to family and friends but then probably you realized
36:26
you had to charge some money or you know maybe you could how was that process of
36:31
understanding that you needed to charge people?
36:38
Um, you know, I don’t remember the exact process,
36:44
but I I never had a problem charging, you know, and it started with very
36:50
modest Mhm. contributions to
36:56
um a full charge because to me again at the time it was more unconscious.
37:04
Today I am very clear about the fact that we live in a culture where people are
37:14
either materialistic or spiritual and for some reason you cannot be both.
37:23
So if you’re spiritual charging money you know is is not holy you know it’s
37:31
not virtuous and if you are materialistic then
37:36
you know you’re not supposed to be interested in spiritual things. So there’s some kind of divorce
37:43
that has happened between the physical world and the spiritual world. And this
37:49
goes with every tradition on the planet where people who are Buddhists or
37:57
Christian or you know Muslims or Jews if they follow
38:04
a spiritual path they cannot be attached to anything
38:11
materialistic. It’s seen as inferior, as an obstacle to
38:18
spiritual realization. And that kind of gets into the head of many astrologers as well who feel like
38:28
they’re offering a spiritual service. So, it should be
38:33
either free or, you know, based on contributions.
38:40
And I I think it’s damaging not only from a sustainable point of
38:48
view of uh running a practice but I think it’s jamaging as a philosophy
38:55
to separate those worlds. So I think charging to me the same way
39:05
that people ask me you know are you not afraid of public speaking? did you have
39:11
any anxiety about um being you know in
39:16
conferences and and I realized that it it’s not really just about me
39:25
you know if I charge money to me it’s about investing in astrology
39:31
it’s about supporting research it’s about making sure
39:38
that there’s financial backing to a very important
39:44
system that helps humanity. So
39:51
when I charge money, I understand that this money is going to support a body of
39:58
knowledge. It’s going to support many people’s lives.
40:03
And when I am on stage, it’s not about it’s not about me. It’s about astrology.
40:12
That’s beautiful. And and yeah, and that’s that’s what it’s about.
40:20
Well, you were taking these leadership roles especially at OPA. What was the
40:27
biggest shadow you had to confront in yourself or in the astrological
40:32
community while taking leadership roles? We do need to be careful and we probably
40:40
will face a deep crisis as a community especially with Pluto being in Aquarius
40:48
where there’s going to be some deep crisis shadow that’s going to come and
40:54
blow in our face so to speak and will force us as astrologers to get better
41:01
organized to bring more ethical guidelines.
41:08
It’s, you know, it it’s misused information. You know, there were instances where astrology was used for
41:18
abuse, you know, to get sexual favors. It’s a matter of time before there’s a
41:23
major lawsuit. There’s going to be damage.
