Cindy McKean: From Medical Doctor to AstroMapping Expert | Living Your Lines, Pluto, 3D Astrology & Destiny

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So the western horizon represents we you know the eastern horizon represents the future. This is what’s coming towards

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us. The MC is this is what we’re dealing with now and how do we cope with it. I mean the western is

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it’s on its way out. It’s not how it’s not about our past. It’s not about what it’s done to us but something that’s on its way out.

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Cindy, you have lived in more than eight countries or something. So you really live the astrology in the sense of what you do which is you know astro mapping among other things.

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How has that been for you like testing your own astrology?

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You know that’s where it becomes really interesting. Uh astro mapping is the umbrella term for all the different

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kinds of astrology that we could relate to our earth geographically. I have Pluto IC. He has

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Pluto ascendant. You know, Kansas City is KC. My husband’s name is Kenneth and I’m Cindy. So, there’s K and C built into it.

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It ended up very Plutonian. Honestly, it was it was taxes and power plays and my

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name was added to documents against the IRS and it was tax fraud. It’s Pluto.

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Pluto is about taxes and I don’t want fraud on my name. You know, the esoteric, the occult business. So that’s

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Pluto at my home. That’s the IC. You know, they would get my my flyers and they’d be like, “Oh, thanks.” And right

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in front of me, like literally a Plutonian thing, just throw it right into the waste basket. It was like around midnight and we heard this lou boom. Maybe it’s a dozen or two dozen.

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And they shoot their rifles into the air just for fun and it goes up like a projectile and lands. Look, this was a sign from God if

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or the heavens, whatever. I mean, if this is not if we don’t listen to this, then we can’t get any blame for what

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2 minuteshappens to us next. Furthermore, I have Chiron in the 9inth house conjunct my midheaven. So, it made sense I would go

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there to learn and learn what medicine of all things. And why would I go there of all places when I could have just

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stayed in America? Well, I had a lot of reasons, of course.

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So, when did you decide to say, “Okay, thank you, medical world. I’m going to switch to this path now.”

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Well, I didn’t. The seeds of that happened in Qatar where I had my moonline there. I think it was my moon ascended.

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Welcome back to another episode of Backstage Astrology. My name is Mario Medina and in this episode I am thrilled to have with me Cindy Mckin before

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becoming one of the leading voices in astro mapping. Cindy McKin was a physician, a researcher, a woman trained

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to trust what can be measured. She was in the medical sector. So in this episode we’re going to step behind the

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chart. We’re going to explore the journey of an astrologer who didn’t leave science behind. She expanded it.

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Uh 3D astrology is something we’re going to touch uh we’re going to talk about and touch base on because 3D astrology is certainly something I never heard

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before and Cindy is an expert in 3D astrology. Actually, in this conversation, I’m going to show you a little bit of what Cindy did for me. I

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had a reading with Cindy because I was so curious about what 3D astrology is.

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So I had a reading with her and it was it was amazing. It was really it gave me such a different perspective of my own

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chart. So we’re going to talk also about 3D astrology. She’s um also a teacher.

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She’s also reading charts as you can see. And in this conversation, we’re going to talk about place. Obviously, locationational astrology, place,

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precision, truth, about how different locations don’t just change your life, they actually change who you become. And

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personally, I lived in several countries. And of course, I wanted to know more about, okay, you know, I’m here right now in this country where I don’t even speak the language. Well, a

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little bit, a little bit of Hebrew. But let’s actually start a conversation with Cindy McKin. I hope you enjoyed this episode and don’t forget to leave your

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comments. What did you learn from Cindy for from her story or what did you learn about astro mapping? Cindy, how are you today? Thank you so much for being here.

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Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you for the invite.

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Wow. Cindy, I wanted to invite you because because you have such an interesting story. I actually don’t know where to start. So guys, in case you don’t know Cindy, I’ll give you a brief

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intro and then Cindy will introduce herself in her own words. But let me tell you why I think her story is so interesting and maybe you can relate to

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her. Cindy before being an astrologer was a medical doctor. Correct Cindy? And

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you were also working with global institutions like the WH you were a clinical research director at Whale

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Cornell Medical College and then you know became an astrologer. So I want to know what happened there.

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Yeah, I I’m still asking myself what happened. So

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um well it’s an easy answer. If you want the short answer, it’s that I moved to my Pluto ic line and that’s where all the change happened.

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I think I should start with how what my relationship is with astrology and when it came into my life.

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Yes. And to be honest with you, it was in my life from the very beginning. And when I first was aware of it, I was four

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years old when I look back at what happened because I remember I went to I was at the supermarket with my mother

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and my brother and she gave us a quarter each to go to, you know, the gumball machines that have the capsules full of toys.

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Uhhuh.

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So, uh, we went, my brother and I went there. My brother was helping me with it. And the toy I got, I saw him jumping

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up and down. He was so excited and he was like, “Cindy, you got a Taurus and you’re a Taurus. You got a Taurus.” And I had no idea what the heck that meant.

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Uh he was older than me, so he he had a clue, of course. And it was a magnet and it was like red and blue. And I I

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remember looking at it and thinking, “Okay, what’s the big deal?” cuz it was a bull.

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But keep in mind, I was born and raised in Buffalo. So, the animals are they

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they you know, they look the same. And we have the Buffalo Bills, the Buffalo Bisons,

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uh you know, so many Buffalo teams and they they use that bison or Buffalo logo essentially to represent their teams,

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their mascot. So, to me, it was just like another Buffalo.

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I kind of, you know, who cares? And when we got home, my brother drew out the zodiac circle and he explained that

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every part is a different animal or sign or person. And I remember being super

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disappointed at the end because I just I was only four years old. I saw them as animals and people. And I I remember

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saying like, “Oh, well, why couldn’t I be a lion or a horse instead?” to me a Sagittarius was a horse for you know

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14 years later I was 18 years old and I’ll get into that later on but that’s when I found out I had a Leo rising and

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a Sagittarius moon when I was about 10 years old they had these stores in America called Kmart

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and I used to go and you know buy like little toys or or candy from from those stores and I’d ride my bike there and

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like keep in mind this is all like pre- internet. So, this is 1985. I’m having the time of my life as a 10-year-old.

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And there used to be these little tiny scrolls of each zodiac sign in the checkout aisle. And I remember always

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being intrigued by them because of the big deal that my brother made. And, you know, wondering what does this have to do? And I see it on other magazines like

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TD Guide or, you know, um, uh, People magazine. I and I finally made the decision because I remember I was

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hesitating like it was 15% of my weekly allowance at the time and as a tourist of course I’m managing my money. I’m

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like I really want to spend 15% of my weekly allowance. I was next in line and I said okay I’ll do it. So, I shelled

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out the 75 cents and I got home and when I read it, the daily predictions really

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9 minutesweren’t worth anything, but the description of the Taurus character was so spot-on and I was like, “Wow, this

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really this there’s something to this.” And uh when I was about 13 years old, my mom bought me three books on palistry.

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Well, the reason she bought those books for me is my parents are into the esoteric. They’re both accountants.

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But yes, but they’re very, you know, they would go and visit a psychic whenever we went to a new part of, you know, if we were traveling or visiting any place.

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And every weekend, my mom used to have her salons or parlors and all her girlfriends would come over and they

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would read each other’s coffee cups, like the Turkish coffee, or they would read each other’s palms, or they would pull out um a deck of cards and pull

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cards, not tarot cards, but just regular playing cards like Lenorman.

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And it was a holler and a hoot. They would laugh and enjoy the very high energy. And every now and then, one of

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the ladies uh would have maybe a husband or a brother and she would give the group a heads up of, hey, my, you know, my brother or my husband, he has a

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really serious question, so he was going to come and ask us, you know, to pull a card or look at his Turkish coffee cup

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or whatever. And the tone got really serious and they would all put their heads together and give some insight on

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what they expect for, you know, for this person to happen. And inevitably that would roll out. Wow.

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And all of that re left an impression on me. Uhhuh.

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So of course I got curious as you’re, you know, a female under your mother’s care and stuff, what your mother does in

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front of you as a girl is going to model your impressions and leave an imprint.

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And you know that did um pike my curiosity especially since we would go to those different kinds of uh psychics

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wherever we went. And um and the reason I was curious too is because psychics would read for me as a child and tell me

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certain things and sometimes they would come out and of course all of my interest interests then were just very children like type of interests, you

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know. Um, but every now and then some of them would give me some insight on my far future of like what I’m going to grow up to be.

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I remember sometimes they were like whatever, you know, like it didn’t feel like it was aligned with me. Other times it’s like wow that was just on my mind,

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you know. So, um, that’s why I got curious about the palistry. So my mom

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bought me those three books and the palistry is a direct tie-in with the astrology because it talks about the mound of

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Mars, the girdle of Venus, the Mercury lines and you know every finger is

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represented by a planet and that naturally started to lead me to astrology.

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So and of course too with what my brother had already introduced. So if we look at my chart, I have Uranus exactly

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on my IC. In one way or another, throughout my life, there was always someone in my family introducing that

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type of unconventional way of looking at things and that Uranus is opposite my son on the MC.

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So it was built into me that I was going to think outside of the box all the time. And to reinforce that I was born on my Uranus IC line and raised there.

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Wow.

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So I knew I was going to be thinking about other things all the time and just realizing I was different from everybody

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but totally embracing it at the same time.

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Wow. So cool to have like you know parents who were buying you this type of books. I wish. But you know what what is

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so interesting also about your your journey that is by the way very Uranian because you also do something I never heard before which is 3D astrology.

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Yeah.

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And for people who don’t know I had a this reading with Cindy of 3D astrology.

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I honestly didn’t know what to expect. I was like okay let’s see. And basically, it’s really like it blew up my mind because it’s something I’ve never ever

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heard before. And it’s so accurate to see the planets moving in this program.

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Amazing program you have and where they are right now in the place where I live and way there were exactly where when I

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was born. So that tells you about this Uranus kind of energy. I was going to ask you later on in the interview, but now that you brought it up, um, so

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you’re not only doing astrology, you’re doing palm mystery, even tarot, I think tarot, you um, you have also this um,

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medium psychic abilities, but yeah, you have done such a great contribution for the astrology community with the astro mapping and astroctography.

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How did that start? Because you know there is astrology and then there is like these branches or different fields.

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Why astrocardtography?

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Because my parents used to make it a point to travel with us twice a year when we were children and one time of

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the year would be somewhere within America and they always made it very educational trips. So I understood that there’s a difference in cultures and

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geography and the land. However, I always felt that there was something that was vibrating differently,

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literally vibrating that was emanating from under my feet, going through my body and connecting to the sky. And that

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was especially so whenever we went overseas and my parents, you know, we, you know, they weren’t taking me or my

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brother to the Milan Rouge obviously, like if we went somewhere, but again, more educational trips and, you know,

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heritage type of relics and learning about like, oh my gosh, this all goes so far back into history and, you know,

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there’s some kind of connection. So when I was 18, I I well I was already fully into the astrology, but you know the way

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as much as a teenager could be that also has her feet as a Taurus on terapirma and that has two accountant parents that

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are going to make sure that you know you’re going to get a college degree, you’re going to work on in a conventional job so you could you know

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support yourself, make money and you know always be secure which appealed to my Taurus

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However, they’d never discourage. As a matter of fact, they encourage when you get that insight because I was psychic since I was a kid. And I would tell them things and all a sudden it would happen.

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And they realize, you know, look, this is a power that you have. It runs in the family. Not everybody in the family has it, but it’s

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almost like maybe you might have someone athletic in the family. And the way to nurture that is to, you know, put that

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person into um coaching or into some kind of sport or whatever, right? In order to make sure that that gets expressed.

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Um but they don’t have to get you into the coaching or teamwork or or sports, right? But the way my parents did it with me, it was more like, look, this is

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a part of you. understand that this is built into you so strongly that it’s going to show up even when you’re not

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asking it to. So the point is control your reactions to it because um it could

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possibly have an effect on you once you see the outcomes essentially.

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So they were very good at how they nurtured it and on top of that they really were good at taking a variety of

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17 minutespsychics. So they didn’t just go to a psychic, you know, that was either pulling a card or looking into a crystal ball or palms. It’s like all sorts of

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um manses, as you call it, like either geommancy or necromancy, which they didn’t like too much, or

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um you know, the oceanmancy, for instance. They We were once on a beach overseas and there was a woman that had

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seashells and she asked you to take the seashells in your hand and shake them around and whisper a question into it.

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shake it around again and then throw it on uh her little blanket. And she was,

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you know, reading um I guess crying in a in a way um you know about the future and what we could expect and with the

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accuracy as well. Also, it was nice to see people that were um uh pulling in some kind of psychic

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ability and some like again with the variety. There’s some people that were doing it and they’re just not present.

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They’re like just throwing information like here you go and hoping for the next person to come. They just want to get it

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over with. And there were some other people that added humor or added a bit of their own personality or or just others that educa added more education.

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So back to the astro mapping. I know I kind of diverted and went back there, but this is all like part of what’s shaping me to coming into this. So I was

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18 years old and I decided to move to Cairo, Egypt. I Yes.

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So I have a um a 0 degrees Sagittarius moon and my Jupiter is in the ninth house in Aries.

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So traveling and especially traveling overseas for education was going to be part of my path.

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Furthermore, I have Chiron in the 9inth house conjunct my midheaven. So, it made sense I would go there to learn and

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learn what medicine of all things. And why would I go there of all places when I could have just stayed in America?

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Well, I had a lot of reasons of course, but you know, if we’re sticking to the Chironic and Jupitarian and Sagittarius

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and Uranus and Icy, it was more that um I like the idea of

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you’re not just being taught uh alopathic medicine over there, not just the conventional medicine,

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but what did the pharaohs use like at the ancients?

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How did they approach medicine? And you got those kind of patients uh in your practice and in your teaching and your

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education because you get a lot of um peasants from the countryside that still use ancient ways. Like they would

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literally still be using an ox to plow their farms.

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And they still use um the more natural type of methods like cupping or maybe honey or uh you know they would take um

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like tea grinds or t coffee grinds you know in order to stop bleeding or something you know so uh and they had a lot of superstitions built into them and

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that you were taught to work with them on that not like h no of course that doesn’t I mean that’s like you know the

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western medicine whereas the eastern medicine was going to be more incorporating And when I say eastern, that might sound

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like I mean the far east, but I mean like east of the prime meridian. And they referred to it as oriental because

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orient is eastern and oxident is western.

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Um, and of course if it’s Egypt, they’re going to stick with what is homegrown in their own roots. Because you know, why

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would we tell someone, for instance, to use ginger, but ginger doesn’t grow in Egypt? We’re going to use something that would grow in Egypt. Okay. Wow.

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So, and there was the ability of like, wow, I’ll get to learn another language.

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Plus, it was Egypt to me where it was like, do you know how much easier it’s going to be to travel to Europe or to Asia or to Africa? It’s like right in

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the center there. And keep that in mind because I did travel a lot with my family when I was younger, even

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overseas, like I said. So, um, I just found it super exciting and I enjoy the

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fact that like, wow, I’m going to be living alone and I get to like when you live by yourself, you really get to discover who you are. And it’s one thing

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when you’re living just down the road or on the other side of town from your family and you’re still in somewhat familiar surroundings.

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I moved to a place where it was absolutely a dramatic shift. And not only that, I know in America they say

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that by the time you’re 18, you’re an adult. And yes, legally you are. For the most part, a lot of your growth has kind

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of stopped by that time. There’s still parts of your body and your brain that are growing. But in my opinion, I’ve always felt that your late teens and

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even up to maybe your mid20s are still formative years, especially if you had such a dramatic change,

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right? So you can imagine I’m changing not just countries and hemisphere and climate but culture and language and

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history that was built into the walls built into the ground in the air that you breathe in and the water that you drink.

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So I I remember feeling going back to that vibration of the land under my feet

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and even realizing how in Cairo it felt one way. Go up north to Alexandria it feels yet a slightly different way

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and you go more east to the Sinai and it felt so different.

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and realizing that in a place like Egypt where you have a you know the ancient gods like you have a goddess like N the

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go this the goddess of the sky and literally the constellations are on her body and she’s overarching everything um

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in some of those hieroglyphics and murals on the wall that they have and that they built the pyramids in perfect

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alignment with the belt of Orion, the stars of the belt of Orion that they timed their year according to the star

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Sirius and when it came up above the horizon they knew you don’t waste time you have to get the land ready for

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agriculture and and that would mean I think they had like 60 or 70 days to do that to prepare their land

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wow and they also used the stars to divide land because once the Nile floods came it washed away all those boundaries and

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they had to redistribute the land every single year. And what was the more fair way to do it but to align it with the stars again?

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Wow. I didn’t know.

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So, obviously there’s something there tied to the land and the sky.

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And if you think about like the um the energy of the Sinai, well, what magic

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that happened there. And I almost felt it was like a lot older. If you look at the terrain, you might have been there may yourself or you know you should join

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one day or visit one day where you could see the terrain is mountains but it’s very old mountains

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and it’s kind of like when you look into the face of someone older and you could see the wrinkles on their face and it etches a story of where they have come

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from. You could see that in the land over there.

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Wow. And they’re the mountains there are friendly to climb because they’re not super steep. They’re not super high. And

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the trails are long made from like hundreds if not thousands of years ago.

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So you could actually climb it, you know, closer to, you know, uh the firmament, the the sky,

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the gods, whatever it is that you know, you’re reaching a higher um elevation there.

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So, I remember thinking to myself, well, duh. Of course, this place is going to feel different. Look at the magic that was here.

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Moses was here. You know, he split the Red Sea. Uh, you know, so many people

25:30
have crossed over that area where um I think even um Alexander the Great was there. Like there’s so many stories that leave its energetic stamp.

25:41
Then what hap and I couldn’t find anything in astrology that tied the land to

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um to the sky beyond what I’ve already learned about like the pyramids and the ancient cities there.

25:56
Uh and you know the books at that point um most of the books there were in Arabic and I was still having a hard time really reading in Arabic.

26:04
Yeah. I was going to ask you how did that go because it’s such a different like a different alphabet even and Yeah.

26:11
Yeah. I’ll I’ll get to that when um we’ll we’ll talk about that because I did I did eventually learn how to read write Arabic and of course I speak

26:20
Arabic fluently, Egyptian Arabic especially. But um uh Egypt if you remember had um the

26:29
ancient library of Alexandria that’s very much a part of their identity. It got burned down, but the spirit of it

26:36
still remained in Egypt. So they built a new library. Wow.

26:40
In other words, they still become a depository for books of all kinds. And because it is a crossroads, a

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geopolitical cultural crossroads between Europe and Africa and Asia, you get a lot of tourists passing through to see

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pyramids and ride a camel and look at the ancient cities and go to the Red Sea. And um and and Egypt or Cairo is a

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mega city. It has like 20 million people that live there.

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So you would get street vendors that would sell different kinds of books. And that’s how I started finding my other books.

27:15
Yes. Wow. So you’re starting your astrology.

27:18
I mean astrology was there already, but you’re in Egypt. I mean I I’m sure there’s a reason that like why you were

27:25
there studying medical becoming a doctor but also the astrology was in the background but also Cindy you have lived

27:33
in more than eight countries or something. So you really live the astrology in the sense of what you do which is you know what you’re very good

27:41
at which is astro mapping among other things. How has that been for you like testing your own astrology?

27:50
You know that’s where it becomes really interesting because in 1996 I was still living overseas

27:58
and I I don’t know how old you are but you might be old enough to remember when the internet came it was just like it

28:07
was it was not here and then it was here like it wasn’t like a gradual let’s introduce it. It was here all of a

28:14
sudden like an overnight thing that came really quickly.

28:19
And at the time they had the cyber cafes or the internet cafes. Oh my goodness.

28:26
Because not everybody had a personal computer at home. And you remember how the old way used to have to dial in with

28:33
AOL or whatever and the you know kind of sounds like the cranky you know electronic alien type of sounds.

28:42
Yeah. Yeah, you know, I I was able to get online and I just typed in astrology. I think it was Internet Explorer at the time

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and finding astro.com and like, “Oh, this is really cool finally.” me like it’s it’s written in a in a language I

28:58
don’t have to translate from French or German or Arabic or whatever and finding

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their astroctography there and looking at it and being like wow this is a place I visited and this and

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this and almost everywhere that I went I had a planet on an angle like an astroctography line and as a matter of

29:20
fact in Egypt I have did I say ascendant I meant to say descendants Sorry.

29:24
Ah, so the problem of a setting in Egypt.

29:28
Okay. So for those who don’t know, probably I’m I’m assuming most of the audience knows astrocarttography because in the end this is an astrology channel,

29:37
but for those who might not know exactly what we’re talking about. Uh Cindy, can you just briefly explain um what astrocardtography or astro mapping is?

29:46
Actually, maybe I’m using the wrong term.

29:49
No, thank you for asking. Uh astro mapping is the umbrella term for all the different kinds of astrology

29:57
that we could relate to our earth geographically. One of the most popular kinds there’s three big branches

30:04
essentially. There’s a few more but like the three ones that are the most uh cohesive and most abundant in in facts

30:12
and you know books and history and used in in the ancient times. So the first one actually that really was more

30:21
ancient was the local space astrology and that is the astrology according to your latitude and longitude. In other

30:29
words, wherever city you live anywhere on earth and the sky that you would see from that vantage point that dome above

30:37
your head and that limitation of the horizon essentially.

30:42
So that was one kind of and that uses azimuth and altitude essentially. Then there’s the other kind the

30:49
astrocarttography that also existed in ancient times but it was popularized by Jim Lewis. Oh let

30:56
me tell you with the local space in recent times it was popularized by Michael Erlline. He was the one that created the software for local space astrology.

31:06
Um, and the one that was astroctography was popularized by Jim Lewis because as they like to say, he cracked the code

31:15
when it came to uh using it with computers and how to map it out with computers. Yeah. So, we covered local

31:23
space, we covered astroctography and the other one, so those two are personal.

31:28
The other one is geodetic astrology and that’s mundane and that’s what we could apply to what is happening in the world.

31:36
Mundane events meaning weather events, climate, politics, economy, wars that was developed by L. Edward Jandro.

31:48
And I remember when I first read about it, I was like, what is this? until I started getting deeper into his work and

31:56
you really get to see how it manifests and it makes all the sense in the world especially since he brings a different

32:02
kind of esotericism into it which is the electric horizon and the magnetic

32:10
meridian and looking at geometry electricity and magnetism or sorry gravity uh

32:18
electricity and magnetism he calls them gem gem Wow. It’s such like a you know a rabbit hole I think on the astro mapping.

32:27
So how long you’ve been doing the astro mapping? You’ve been doing it for a long while from what I understand.

32:33
Yeah. So if you would casually count the time that I started when the internet when I discovered it on the internet that was in 1996.

32:43
Oh, so um I was still in medical school at the time, but I was always reading about astrology. My brother came and visited

32:51
me uh when I was in Egypt and he brought me Linda Goodman sun sign books and Solar Fire on a floppy disc.

33:01
No way.

33:02
Yes. Okay. That’s how I was able to discover my rising and my moon sign. And they had some light interpretations in

33:10
there. And you know those floppy discs, you stick them into your computer and the computer sound like the gears were grinding and stuff. And I remember it

33:17
was like a black screen with the pixelated um uh charts and stuff on there. Wow.

33:24
And you know it was like MS DOS essentially with the in basic language uh computer language being able to see

33:32
things and like oh what does Jupiter it’s in my ninth house. Well what does that mean? Well what does it mean if moon is below the horizon? What does it mean if sun is conjunct the ang you know

33:41
just learning it that way which is a very essential part to when you start practicing your astro mapping because it

33:48
all comes together that 3D astrology I’m talking about and in medical school I would read a lot about it because

33:55
medical school isn’t easy especially when you’re overseas and um it’s intense studying so I had

34:03
sometimes trouble concentrating so in order to get me into gear to study I would read about like half an hour of some kind of astrology book and then I

34:12
would get into studying and it would be so intense it would be so hard to fall asleep. So I’d read another half an hour or so of astrology and go to sleep that

34:20
way. And once once I got to my clinical years I started uh looking at the

34:27
patients in the hospital. Now keep in mind like I said they’re they’re the peasants. They’re the ones that are still in touch with the ancient ways. So

34:36
I would tell them, hey, do you mind if I look at your astrology chart? You have a surgery coming up and maybe we could get some insight from that. And of course they were open to it.

34:46
And when I asked my um you know my my bosses, my supervisors, the you know there’s a hierarchy in academia, they

34:54
were like we don’t care. I mean just you know as long as you’re following the medical protocol that’s rapport with your patient that’s fine, you know. Mhm.

35:03
And you would really see if Mars played a role or if Uranus, you know, something was happening in the O or whatever or,

35:12
you know, those kind of interesting types of correlations.

35:16
And by the time I graduated, I was approached by um I actually had really really really good job offers because um

35:24
I went to University of Cairo and it’s a flagship not just in the Middle East but Africa and the region

35:31
and imagine here I am young uh solo American female living alone in

35:42
the Middle East. Well, obviously I’m a contender for, you know, one of those international organizations, especially

35:49
at the time. It was very stylish to hire those kinds of people and to find someone, especially

35:56
that is American and female that is not affiliated to like a church or religious

36:03
organization or the military, like totally singular and solo. All of a sudden it was like all these offers that came eventually took something with the

36:12
World Health Organization that took me to Ghana and England which is my Saturn MC line and yeah during my

36:22
Saturn return it was very positive. Um but you know that only led to more and more opportunities. that eventually took

36:31
me to Germany and that was one of the few places in the world where I really didn’t have any lines there. I had some

36:38
piran like you know thousands of miles away that you could feel just once a day as the world rotates under it. Um, but

36:47
it was kind of interesting living somewhere where I didn’t have lines and uh uh I came back to America and I

36:55
started working at Mount Sinai Medical Center in um in New York City. And it was so ironic. I was just so happy

37:04
because I was like, you know, I I just know I got on a plane and I’m finding myself at Mount Si and I’m expecting to see those like, you know, those old

37:12
mountains and instead I’m in, you know, a different kind of mountain, like a a city mountain, so to speak. Um and I was

37:20
among cousins so to speak like in that the people from that region more or less because it’s um it is a you know a

37:29
Jewish hospital that serves the wide community not just Jewish people that it was created by Jews mostly for Jews but

37:36
then they served everybody uh very openly and it was so I mean they were really really good with how their system

37:44
was and it taught it just it was such a natural match And that was my son midheaven line. And of course, what’s

37:52
going to happen under my son midheaven line. I’m going to have rap rap rap rap

37:56
rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap

37:56
rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rapid uh upward mobility with my career. So I was also able to get my masters in public health

38:04
and my master’s um my MBA from New York City while I was working. You know that immediately was like all this all these

38:13
different facets to me. Uh Cornell was while Cornell Medical College was like

38:20
or while Cornell I said whale was like um uh hey you’re you know I they heard

38:28
about the I I could speak Arabic I understand the cultures and they were

38:35
like you know what we have um a campus in Qatar and we’re starting up a clinical

38:43
research unit there and we think you would be absolutely perfect because you could walk in both worlds.

38:50
So, would you like to take the job there?

38:53
And they created a job specifically for me and I had just gotten married. It was 2009. So many things were shifting in my

39:00
39 minuteslife in 2009. Like I met my husband four months later we got married. Uh you know we’re living I I of course we moved

39:08
apartments so we could live together and you know this job offer comes by. So, I took my husband to the same place that

39:17
he proposed marriage to me. It was on this pier on on the Hudson River and I said, “Look, I was offered this

39:23
job and I didn’t give him the answer and I will not give him an answer because I’m proposing it to you as my husband

39:31
and I’m not going to say yes if you’re not on board.” And he was like, “Look, this is the opportunity of a lifetime.

39:39
Of course, we have to we have to take it.” We were only married for 10 months at the time.

39:45
So yes, you’re so brave. Like what? Egypt at 18 and then Qatar and all these things.

39:53
Wow. So So Cindy, when did you decide to I mean I’m not sure if you’re still working in the medical field or you’re I think you’re a full-time astrologer by now, aren’t you?

40:04
Right. So So when did you decide to say, “Okay, thank you medical world. I’m going to switch to this path now.

40:13
Well, I didn’t. The seeds of that happened in Catar where I had my moon line there. I think it was my moon ascended.

40:21
But my husband has his sun and his moon line crossing with this ACG.

40:28
No, when you have a sun and moon crossing the way it did in his chart, it was going to be absolutely life-changing. I

40:35
was married to a New York lawyer and over there he decided you know what I want to fulfill a career in medicine.

40:42
That was always his dream, his soul’s wish.

40:46
Yeah. So, uh we decided that he should go to medical school in America and

40:54
it came down to Arizona, um Kansas City or New York City. And we were still ready for a change so we

41:01
didn’t go with Kansas City. To be honest with you, the only reason we didn’t choose Arizona was the tuition was crazy. It was like $85,000 like in the

41:09
mid 201s essentially a year. And you know, Kansas City seemed all right. It’s

41:17
a funny reason. It’s, you know, Kansas City is KC. My husband’s name is Kenneth and I’m Cindy, so there’s K and C built into it.

41:29
I know.

41:30
Oh my god. And and what was funny was like we first visited and we we both have Pluto lines. I have Pluto I see. He

41:38
has Pluto ascendant. And we both felt the energy. There was like this extra charge with intensity.

41:45
So at first we felt like, hey, we’re both intense people. We could definitely get this to work. In all honesty, we

41:52
were warned. We were told by so many people that look, it’s Kansas City. It’s a very insular place. are very exclusive. They’re very parochial.

42:03
They’re um insulated from the rest of America. They’re a landlocked place and they’re not like other cities. And we’re

42:10
like, come on. We’ve lived in places like, you know, you’ve heard that Germany and France would be like anti-American or anti- non-German or

42:18
French or something. I didn’t experience that in those places. you know, I’ve lived in so many places by then and I

42:24
was always very easily able to, you know, um, accommodate and assimilate.

42:31
Oh, that was my waterlue. That’s when the change happened because there I arrive absolutely qualified. I mean, I’m

42:39
I already have, you know, my degrees under my belt. I have multiple languages. I have amazing institutions

42:49
that I was tied to and they wanted nothing to do with me because they said I was too international and too big city

42:58
and they just wanted someone local and homegrown no matter what jobs I applied for, no matter how I pitched myself.

43:06
And you know, I found that like for instance, they would choose the retired uh manager of the fire uh house, you

43:15
know, like a retired firefighter over me. Why? Because, you know, it Jim Bob’s my cousin and this is my cousin’s

43:23
neighbor and I trust him and because I know him or I know him through my family, I know he’s going to do a good job. And it’s like, yeah, but

43:31
what research did he do? what’s his scientific background and what protocols did he follow and it was like they don’t

43:39
want to hear they it was very closed off.

43:42
Furthermore, in trying to get my credentials um reciprocated there, they were like, “Oh my god, look at these

43:51
foreign countries you’ve been in.” And so what you know, like Germany is not a bad place. I mean, that’s even more advanced than America, for example.

44:02
But they were like, “But we’re American and we love America.” I’m like, “Okay, what about my degrees from New York?” As we said, we’re American. Like, okay, but

44:10
New York is America. No, you know, like to them it was just not them, not Midwest.

44:17
And it was really, I mean, I really tried and it was so clear. And in the same time every time I went to a new

44:25
city as I learned from my parents I I got into the all the arts the culture and of course visiting where are the psychics and the astrologers.

44:35
So I became a part of an astrology organization there. It ended up very plutonian honestly. It was it was taxes and power plays and like it alienation.

44:48
It was so funny. Like it was such a Pluto icy experience there for me.

44:53
But I remember my husband was like, “Look, it’s clear that no one’s going to hire you and you’re putting, you know,

45:00
45 minutesyou’re volunteering with this astrology organization. Why don’t you just like put your effort into an astrology

45:08
business or an esoteric business and turn your v, you know, your your love into a vocation, turn it into a business.”

45:16
And I was so resistant and so hesitant, so like, I don’t want to do this. And he’s like, well, why not? And I’m like,

45:23
I never had a business and I’m a tourist. You know how it’s like where we want a steady paycheck. I like really

45:30
enjoyed that about working as a physician. And you know, he was like, well, you’ll get you’ll make some money

45:38
and that’s the nature of business. And he said, how about this? If I do the legal paperwork for you

45:46
and I write up your articles of organization, you build a website and you do the readings and the marketing,

45:53
why don’t you just give it a try for a year and the worst that could happen is you’ll fail. And so what? At least you

46:00
46 minutestried it. And I thought, well, if you put it that way, I’ll try.

46:07
And I started my business and I it was again the Plutonian thing of you know I’m going against the grain. I have a lot of friction.

46:18
You know I’m not you know I already had this horrible experience with the astrology organization there where they’re the

46:25
power plays and stuff like they were not happy that I was starting my own business.

46:29
So they accused me of like fraud and you know you know money fraud and being a thief

46:36
and grand theft and uh you know and in the meantime it was all about like

46:44
my name was added to documents against the IRS and it was tax fraud.

46:51
It’s Pluto. Pluto is about taxes and I don’t want fraud on my name and you know I’m doing um you know the esoteric the

47:01
occult business. So that’s Pluto at my home. That’s the IC. So it was like all this uphill battle.

47:09
And just side note on my Pluto I see the house that we rented as it turns out was build it was built over a sinkhole and

47:17
they weren’t honest to us about it. Um, and my home was literally slowly falling

47:24
into the sinkhole and these big cracks were coming up in my house and all these insects were coming into our basement

47:32
and the stuff that was in our basement was getting like eaten and destroyed by these insects. I mean, it was such a plutonian experience with everything

47:40
like losing your identity, having to go from physician to psychic. It was literally like I lost a few letters and

47:49
I lost the dignity of you know they’re simple folks. I mean they’re still traditional in a lot of ways. So um you

47:56
know a lot of times it was like you know how did you mess up? I’m like I didn’t mess up. this is, you know, I I was

48:05
stonewalled essentially. And they don’t want to believe that, like, oh no, because my cousin Jim Bob got a got a good job with the UN. Yeah, your cousin

48:12
Jim Bob got a good job, but I wouldn’t be allowed that good job, you know? And they just they don’t understand it. They can’t believe that that’s the paradigm

48:21
of it. And as I was going around trying to build my business, it was so interesting because um it’s pretty grassroots there. That’s what works.

48:31
That’s you know, that’s fine. I think that’s pretty cute, as a matter of fact.

48:36
So, I’d create flyers and go to different esoteric shops, and they didn’t like the way I look. I was the wrong complexion. I was too ethnic for

48:45
them. Um, you know, clearly not one of them. Wow.

48:48
And sometimes, you know, they would get my my flyers and they’d be like, “Oh, thanks.” And right in front of me, like literally a plutonian thing, just throw it right into the waste basket.

48:59
And I was, you know, you don’t have to do that. you could just give it back to me or just tell me and they’re like, “Well, that’s where it would end up

49:06
anyway.” Or sometimes I’d get there and they’d be like, “We heard about you. The astrology organization called us and they told us that you’re here to import

49:15
crimes.” And I’m like, “Who would do that?” Like, “What kind of job is that?”

49:21
So um I I had no other choice but to start leveraging the internet which was

49:28
no problem really for me but it was a problem for the astrology organization and they went on a very strong defamation campaign.

49:37
So you could imagine all this plutonian stuff of power plays of my inhome

49:44
esoteric business. Furthermore, it was it was um that erosion of identity, that

49:52
sense of, you know, where did this wrong turn happen? How did this happen this way? In the meantime, what was happening with my husband and his Pluto ascendant?

50:03
He was the oldest guy in medical school there. And the attitude towards him was, you know, not just that he’s the old

50:11
guy, which is whatever. I mean, he is the older guy, but you know, calling him a hog because well, you already have a a

50:19
law degree. You don’t need a medical degree. You’re hogging degrees. Like, where does this concept ever come from?

50:27
Like, why such a myopic type of view of things? And um you know, the fact that we were from New York City or that’s

50:35
where we last live. My husband’s a native New Yorker, so the resistance to big city stuff and um always being alienated there.

50:45
But I put my name on the internet. I put it electronic shingle as I like to say.

50:50
And I remember, you know, when you create like a website, it takes like six months for Google to crawl it and to get indexed and all that. But

50:59
um I did my market research because you know I mean that’s when you get educated you’re you’re taught how to do certain things right like that was my MBA and

51:08
everything but also like just knowing the field that’s one of the things I transferred from you know my public health and the medicine and stuff of you

51:17
know observe where you are and work among you know work along what you see

51:24
that are facilitators and identify the barriers and there’s a flow that starts to come up.

51:34
And I remember one of the things I was like, “Wow, I could totally leverage the fact that I’m a stranger here and that I

51:42
don’t hang out with people here at all either.” Like I was so isolated and alienated.

51:48
And one of the issues about the psychics and the astrologers in the Kansas City area were that they gossiped a lot.

51:57
So someone would go and get a reading with them and during a reading there’s stuff that’s private that comes out and then the psychic or the astrologer would

52:05
go and start telling people in the community and what happens it gets back to these people like their friends or their their family members and you can

52:14
imagine you know it doesn’t even have to be like a dirty secret. It’s just stuff that’s private and it’s almost like someone opening your diary in some ways you know.

52:24
Yes. No. No. No. Please. It’s crazy.

52:27
So, that was one of the things I used to advertise myself is I am new here. I don’t know anybody. I don’t hang out

52:34
with the community and I come from training with HIPPA and I’m married to a lawyer. So, confidentiality is built in

52:42
and that’s that you’re guaranteed with me.

52:46
So of course that you know that was something that helped me a lot of course and I remember thinking okay it’s going

52:54
to take at least three months or maybe even six months for clients to come to me actually within that first week after

53:02
I put my website up even though Google didn’t exactly crawl it there was such a dirt there and people found me

53:11
I got three clients that first week oh they referred other clients clients. So, it snowballed very quickly to like 15

53:19
clients. And within the first month, I was already working every day doing readings.

53:25
Oh, wow. What do your your what did your husband say? Oh, he was happy. He knew I could do it.

53:32
Um, the only problem was that it brought the eye of the astrology community and the metaphysical community to try to bring me down. M

53:41
and that was the other Plutonian experience with it May was that you know Pluto has to do with death as well and transformation and stuff.

53:50
Yeah.

53:50
So um we’re both Tauruses. We decided we both have a lot of stick tuitiveness. So if we make our decision we’re going to see it to the end.

53:59
Wow. And uh what happened was um we were sleeping

54:05
and it was like around midnight and we heard this lamp boom and we jumped out of our beds. We had no

54:14
idea. Like it’s just totally awful. Like you just it you know when sounds vibrate through you and and shake you.

54:24
So, we followed where the sound was and we get out and we look and we see like this dust that was coming down.

54:32
No, we followed the dust and there was like a hole about like this big in our roof.

54:38
So he followed and we looked down and it went through the couch where my husband was just sitting an hour earlier

54:45
through the floor to the basement, hit the floor, ricocheted, hit the wall, bounced off the wall, and went through one of our

54:53
plastic bins. And that’s where it finally stopped. No way.

54:58
And we were just silent like I mean what do you say when something I mean he was just sitting there and if it was just a

55:07
matter of like a few more feet that could have landed on our bed where we were sleeping and we called the police

55:16
and the police were laughing about it and they were like oh yeah it’s you and 11 other houses that complained and called the police today tonight. And

55:25
we’re like well that’s great. So then you’ll investigate it and they’re like, “Oh, we already know it’s a group of guys, maybe a mile or two miles away,

55:33
and maybe it’s a dozen or two dozen, and they shoot their rifles into the air just for fun, and it goes up like a projectile and

55:41
lands.” So we’re like, “Great, you got the per, you know, you got your guys.” And they’re like, “Oh, no, we don’t.” Because every time we go there to question them, they all lie and cover for each other.

55:52
Oh my god.

55:53
So then we were just silent. We knew immediately. We didn’t even push it.

55:57
Like you could get gunpowder off a person’s hands. I mean, you just push the person. I mean, you interrogate them. We just knew immediately what was going on. Oh my god, there must be

56:06
police in there that are shooting. And how do we fight the police? Wow.

56:12
So, we just put our report in and I remember we just sat there for like three or four hours like in silence.

56:22
What do you say? And by the end, my husband was like, “You know what? I’m going to withdraw from the program.” And he already put two years in. Yeah.

56:33
Oh my god.

56:34
He already put two years in. And he said, “You know, I still want to become a doctor, so I’m going to apply to

56:41
another program and we’re going to leave.” And I said, “Yes.” I said, “Uh, look, this was a sign from God if or the heavens,

56:49
whatever. I mean, if this is not if we don’t listen to this, then we can’t get any blame for what happens to us next.

56:57
And there would be something happening to us for sure because it was just it was so accumulative with the Plutonian energy.

57:06
And uh at that time, because I did have the problem with the astrology organization, I already had to open up a lawsuit against them to protect myself.

57:16
And uh it was interesting because then it ties to astrology again when we chose his next medical school. Of course Pluto

57:25
was out of the question and we like even had an acceptance where there was a Pluto piran and we I told him this. I

57:34
said no I I mean let’s not go through this again. We we got so close to you know the edge of what this bullet did.

57:42
We don’t need any more of this. So we chose our um medical school according to our lines would be good for him and me.

57:50
There were no lines where he was but it was my Mercury MC in Zenith. So it’s the

57:58
highest that Mercury could ever be. That means it would be between the Tropic of Capricorn and Cancer.

58:05
Um if we’re looking at the celestial sphere and the uh celestial equatorial system, which is what astroctography

58:13
uses, And that means that it would have been directly overhead. Not, you know,

58:21
there’s MC at any other latitude that might be like this high, but it’s not 90 degrees high.

58:29
Yes. Like I remember the the program you showed me now actually I can make sense of it because you need to you need to see this

58:36
thing. Yeah. It’s actually on your top not like like with an angle or like that, right? So So you went there.

58:43
Mercury line, Mercury MC. Now, Mercury in in astrology was the only god that

58:52
it’s the god of communication, but he’s the only god that could go from the underworld to the surface without getting scathed. Uhhuh.

59:00
59 minutesHe did such a Mercury IC uh MC thing, a mercurial thing in general in that the lawsuits active. Part of the reason that

59:08
they were attacking me is because I was not a local and I had Kansas City in my business name. Yeah, I know. I know.

59:15
It’s just like what am I supposed to call it? New York, uh, you know, astrology and here I am in Kansas City.

59:21
So, I just I wasn’t imaginative when it came to names. So, I said Kansas City astrology and tarot. And they had a problem like how dare you put Kansas

59:29
City in your business name and you’re not one of us. Yeah. See? Wow. It’s crazy. Wow.

59:37
Yeah. So, so then you moved to the Mercury.

59:40
So, moving, but I couldn’t tell them I moved because then they would really really ramp up and get all the arsenal and say, “Look at all this.” And I had

59:47
to keep the business alive in order, you know, it helps keep the lawsuit legitimate. Oh, wow.

59:53
Because, you know, I’m protecting my name, but my business as well. So, talk about such a Mercury thing. We left in

59:59
secret like kind of in the middle of the night, so to speak. I mean, that’s when the flights were too.

1:00:05
Wow. We land on my Mercury MC and somehow someway I’m supposed to keep this business alive. Well, how am I supposed to keep a business alive where

1:00:13
it was in person? And that’s what especially not only the zeitgeist of the time but especially in Kansas City where they do

1:00:21
want to deal face to face because if you remember like in America they had like people like Madame Cleo and psychic

1:00:29
hotlines that totally ruined the reputation of of the metaphysical and especially doing it on the phone.

1:00:37
So a lot of people are like uh and the whole attack with my reputation was that I’m a con man. I’m a thief. I’m just out

1:00:43
there to take your money. So, how is it that I still could get people and on the phone on top of that? And you know, I

1:00:51
required that they pay before I call, otherwise you never get paid. And um I just remember a feeling like I wish I didn’t have to do this.

1:01:02
It’s 20 by that point. It’s 2016, so it’s still a zeitgeist of where people don’t want to do it. Nobody has

1:01:11
um their business like their mom and pop shop so to speak or a nano business like I had. The psychic hotlines were places

1:01:18
like California Psychics or Orandum or like they’re big huge businesses essentially.

1:01:24
So uh but it was my Mercury MC in Zenith.

1:01:30
And you know what was so funny? I ended up getting more business that way than doing it in person. And people liked it

1:01:37
more because they they listened. They were writing notes. They felt like I didn’t see them and I was still able to

1:01:44
tell them all sorts of details without like you know in Kansas City sometimes um and in psychics in general. So I

1:01:52
wouldn’t it’s not fair just to put it in Kansas City where you know they’ll see a woman coming in and she’s older and she has a nice big diamond ring and they’re

1:02:01
like oh you’re married to a man that takes good care of you. And it’s like, well, duh. I mean, that’s, you know, that’s like the cold readings and stuff.

1:02:10
You know, if you’re above 50, well, you have a relative that died and you’re trying to reach. Well, of course, by the time you’re 50 or so, you’re going to

1:02:18
have relatives that die. But if I don’t know anything about them, and they never wanted to give me their birth information ahead of the reading because

1:02:27
they were afraid I could Google them or something. So, I had to know how to do it quickly, on the spot, and accurately.

1:02:35
Okay.

1:02:36
And, you know, I’m talking to them on the phone and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, how do you know all this stuff?” And they got more time on the reading

1:02:43
because they didn’t have to situate themselves with sitting down, putting their coat away or getting their purse comfortable or whatever. It was just

1:02:51
pretty much going into the reading. Um, yeah.

1:02:55
Wow, Cindy. And then suddenly you are on CBS and then you’re in Fox News, the the

1:03:02
NPR. I don’t know this is American I guess. I hope I’m pronouncing them well.

1:03:08
So So how did that happen? The ones that you know they they started I mean inviting you. How how was that that

1:03:15
experience? So I say that when CBS called me it was good luck and they tell

1:03:21
me good luck is when preparation meets opportunity. So imagine the preparation’s already there where I’m

1:03:29
used to doing these things quickly and answering things on the spot without like being given the questions just you have to have your body of knowledge and

1:03:38
you have to be able to communicate that well. So, they sent me an email and I remember I I was in the Caribbean at the time and I told them, “I’m out of town.

1:03:48
I can’t come in, you know, before two days.” And they said, “How about you could come in next week?” And I said,

1:03:57
“Okay, that’s really great.” And um so I t I tend to think that that Mercury energy is what brought me to that communication and that news essentially.

1:04:08
Yeah. And it was all about exercise, which is kind of a a mercurial thing because it’s about being nimble and

1:04:15
moving around and everything and just sending the message that astrology isn’t so negative. It was supposed to be a very light, fun,

1:04:24
informative piece uh you know, piec of um relating to people

1:04:31
and yeah, so I was the only person that was featured as the astrologer. They didn’t talk to anybody else

1:04:40
and that gave me such credibility and you should have seen it with my clients.

1:04:44
They saw me on TV and they’re like, “Oh my god, you’re our, you know, you’re our reader. You’re the one that and business started to explode even more.” Wow. What a story.

1:04:55
What a story. So then you um you said a goodbye to your medical career and then this this starts working the astrology

1:05:04
and then now you are an expert in astromapping and you’ve been a member of ISAR if I’m not mistaken you’re at

1:05:12
Kepler College you are I mean you’ve been to China teaching astro mapping

1:05:18
so how has that been for you I mean from what I’m hearing it’s been a journey of

1:05:25
not easy but now that you are part of all these institutions um can you tell the people what are you

1:05:32
doing at the moment and where you’re teaching so you know in case they’re interested so I do teach at Kepler College

1:05:40
and I am the program director for the astro mapping certificate I was originally brought in through Karen

1:05:49
Macaulay who is firstderee you know friends with Jim Lewis and Um

1:05:56
Lori Burns also made a big recommendation. She saw me in a Facebook group and she thought, “Wow, what a very

1:06:03
organic micro influencer.” And um Tamara McGilly who was looking to create an

1:06:10
astro mapping certificate and of course she can’t create it alone. Um so I was the energy that came in and when she

1:06:18
looked at our charts, she’s like, “We have five conjunctions in our charts together.” Yeah. Pretty

1:06:27
cool. So Cindy, tell us also in case people I mean you have a very a beautiful website but in case they they want to connect with you, should they do

1:06:36
it through your website? Are you on how is your relationship with social media?

1:06:39
If you want to share a little bit of that as well. Um and what’s your current website? Because there is Kansas City and this is not the actual

1:06:48
Well, I actually I have I I use all three websites now as it turns out. Um, so I’m trying and I’m very slow about

1:06:56
this. I’ve been super super as slow as like a snail racing through molasses slow as far as like trying to get

1:07:04
everything transitioned. And my I’m trying to make my main umbrella and website cindy mckian.com

1:07:12
and that’s the one that you like that website very much, but it doesn’t have a lot of information. If you want to book a personal reading, then you would go to

1:07:22
www.canansascityastrology.com and just go to the calendar there.

1:07:27
And if you’re a business or a school or an organization, my businessto business website is the oracle. So that’s t h e a r a cs.com.

1:07:40
I have or I do aura readings too, which is what was the inspiration for that. Um yeah, in any case for the audience

1:07:48
whoever is listening, don’t worry because in the link below this conversation, you will find everything we’ve been talking about where to

1:07:54
contact Cindy, her profile, h everything all together in in one place. So just don’t worry about taking notes or anything. It will be it will be there.

1:08:05
And Cindy, do you want to tell us do you have Instagram account? Are you on Facebook? You have your YouTube channel.

1:08:11
Where can we hear you more besides Kepler College channel? I’m sure you’ve been there and probably ESAR. I’ve seen you I think.

1:08:20
Yes. And on NCGR with NCGR as well.

1:08:24
And OPA everywhere.

1:08:28
Yes. I’m part of you know you’re very active.

1:08:32
So you could look out for my um my articles coming out in uh the evolving astrologer. That’s the OPA magazine. And

1:08:42
I’m going to be doing um a four-part series on astro mapping. And that first issue is going to be coming out in

1:08:49
September of 2026 in time for UAC. And I’ll be speaking at UAC on the demystifying the astronomy of astro

1:08:58
mapping. Um I do speak with ESAR and NCGR. I’m currently doing a mini crash course on

1:09:06
astro mapping. You could always find me teaching at Kepler College. I also offer private readings in case you’re interested. Um, not reading, sorry,

1:09:15
private one-on-one teaching and tutoring. Um, because some people just really want the

1:09:21
more, you know, one-on-one insight. Um, so you can reach out and I I make those for you. I mean, I already have curriculum out there.

1:09:30
Yeah. with astro mapping. I mean, you can take classes, but if you really want to dive into, I would say 101 ones or

1:09:39
like even two or three people in a in a class. And let me tell you guys, Cindy has the best presentations I ever seen

1:09:47
in the astro mapping. They are like so 3D and you won’t get bored. Um, the reason why I’m telling you guys is because I am I’ve been supporting Kepler

1:09:56
with some some stuff and I happened to see her classes. So you won’t get bored.

1:10:02
She is an excellent teacher and a very very active person in her WhatsApp groups. She has this astromapping

1:10:09
WhatsApp groups and she’s very involved always answering our questions even telling us stories and very active also

1:10:16
about the geopolitics which is not very common that you are you know this astroctography expert but also you know

1:10:24
what’s actually going on in each region and looking at the lines and the wars and the conflict. So I I mean I I could

1:10:31
keep just going on with all these things I’ve experienced with Cindy, but Cindy, do you want to share anything else for

1:10:39
those who are considering taking the astro mapping branch or expertise? Is there any advice you want to tell them or something you want to share?

1:10:49
Yeah, I I think it would be worthwhile that it does help when you know um the planets like really getting to

1:10:58
know the idea of the planets and you know the de debunking a lot of the bigger things out there like it’s not

1:11:07
about just relocating your natal chart and reading that like the new natal. No, that’s silly. That’s like saying, you

1:11:15
know, if if you know, you’re um you know, you’re born in born and raised in France and you’re a French person and moving to China would make you Chinese.

1:11:26
It doesn’t. You’re still genetically French. Um, so it’s really about understanding what energy is actually

1:11:35
coming and shining its light on you and what manifestations if they’re like icy or below the horizon like how you call that into you intuitively.

1:11:46
It’s not about relocating the chart.

1:11:48
That’s just an a tertiary or even a quadr type of tool. And you know, I mean, there’s so many things I could

1:11:55
debunk, but once you start to know the astronomy behind it, and when I say astronomy, I’m not talking math. I I’m I’m not I’m the last person to teach you

1:12:04
math, by the way. But it’s about learning the character of, you know, of these different planets. For instance,

1:12:11
you know, Venus, for example, is the third brightest body in the sky. If you actually go out into the sky and you see

1:12:18
her and the beauty that’s attached because oftentimes she is in twilight and she’s just there bright and

1:12:26
beautiful and then you get to understand and you get captivated. You get to understand about beauty and love and

1:12:33
peace and the harmony for an example. Um that’s how I lead you into it. And I also bring other things in like why not

1:12:42
bring in the numerology and when we’re looking at the coordinates and we see things that are tied in together, why not bring in an internal meeting of

1:12:51
whether you know you find it’s your angels or your spirit guides as you’re looking into it that are feeding into the information but still solidly

1:13:00
1 hour, 13 minuteskeeping the planets as your guard rails essentially.

1:13:05
um you know and and once you get to use that uh and you combine like

1:13:12
astrocardography for instance with local space astrology I could I’m so good at teaching you for instance I use my

1:13:19
Jupiter line in order to make more money I’ve used my um I’ve overused by accident my Venus

1:13:26
line um you know for more harmony and you know what overdosing does and how to

1:13:33
you know how how to correct that, how to uh the antidotes to it. It is so beautiful once you deeply get into it.

1:13:42
And I would like to say that I am very much an eclipse person. And I love both

1:13:49
lunar and solar eclipses and I’ve experienced several in my life and I’ve used them with astrocarttography and I’m

1:13:58
the only person in the world that knows how to teach it and the depth of it of you will literally change your life when

1:14:07
you use your astro cryptography in your local space with uh especially with solar eclipses but also with lunarclipses too. Wow, that’s so like do

1:14:16
you have a class about that somewhere or are you going to teach some of that like eclipse and astroctography? Is there like a module at Kepler or something?

1:14:25
We don’t have that at Kepler. I’m going to be that’s my private stuff that I teach at my business. So I will be

1:14:32
offering that soon. And I’m actually planning a trip to look for in Egypt in

1:14:39
August of 2027 where there’s going to be the longest eclipse of the century and taking people

1:14:47
to some of the ancient sites, especially the ones that were tied to the stars, of course, the pyramids, the ancient

1:14:54
bazaar, uh the Red Sea, uh the ancient cities, and then, you know, we’re we’re

1:15:01
going to um near the and get to the eclipse and how you could use your planets with the eclipse to absolutely

1:15:09
again it’s a promise that you would change your life as long as you’re following the intention and the preparation for it and then we’ll relax

1:15:18
at the Red Sea and we come back to Cairo and you go home and then we’ll follow up with the lunar eclipse two weeks later and how to anchor that and move it on.

1:15:29
So that’s something that I offer privately through my own business and you could just write to me and you know join my newsletter. We’ll keep in touch

1:15:38
and uh may thank you so much for this opportunity. I know I talked so much and I’m sorry. We don’t know. No, I will have you back.

1:15:46
Don’t worry because I also wanted I wanted to um I mean of course if you have time later in the year because I know you’re a busy person but I wanted

1:15:54
people to know your story because you know how is it to actually leave in your lines and to leave what you preach

1:16:01
basically with the astrology. I think it’s so interesting but I know there are so many other challenges you faced in your journey as an astro astro mapping

1:16:10
expert and also um wanted to mention maybe in the next conversation we’ll be diving more into the actual practice and

1:16:18
what it takes and all the misconceptions there are in social media because you know now with Tik Tok and and the reals

1:16:25
and this um you get these little pieces of information about astroctography

1:16:32
And I think you need to be careful when it comes to advice as where you should move or live or travel because I mean

1:16:42
you need I think you need an expert when it comes to this kind of very important decisions in life.

1:16:51
Yeah. And I want to add something too because you did mention the geopolitical background that I have as well. And I’ve heard astrologers advising people to go

1:17:00
1 hour, 17 minuteswhere their Jupiter and Venus is crossing. And then you look on the map and it’s like, well, that’s Iran, you

1:17:07
know, like or that’s Ukraine or that’s Gaz. I mean, it’s somewhere where there’s like war happening and they’re like

1:17:14
unaware of it. And you’re what does that mean? I’ll get my my ration before everybody else and I’ll get one more cup

1:17:21
of rice the I mean we’re not going to send some we have to be aware of the culture and alignment and hear a

1:17:28
person’s goals and where what stage they are in their lives. So it’s a very involved thing. It’s not like where am I going to move to be happy. We have to

1:17:36
define what does happiness mean to you at this point of your life and you know to have I’m very picky with who I get in

1:17:43
who I allow. I just don’t open it to anybody. But um very picky about uh it’s

1:17:51
not just doing a reading to tell you where you could casually go based on a line. It’s a very holistic, very involved type of reading, which is why

1:18:00
1 hour, 18 minutesan hour and a half honestly is is just getting down to the basics essentially of it. and um all the prep that you

1:18:09
could do and even um not just an astroctography line, but how to situate your house according to me looking at

1:18:17
your chart and seeing well do you want a north facing main window or you know so there’s a bit of funue that’s involved

1:18:25
in that too and um yeah I just wanted to add that because um

1:18:32
there’s so many people that are socially you know, social media popular

1:18:40
and you know, I I I refer to it as very Neptunian. If you think about Hollywood as Neptunian in that like, well, it’s

1:18:47
you could put an actress in front of the silver screen and they appear like, whoa. But behind the silver screen, you find out that the person is either a mess or they really don’t know anything.

1:18:57
In other words, it’s all the smoking mirrors.

1:19:00
1 hour, 19 minutesAnd with me, what you see is what you get.

1:19:02
And yeah, and I, you know, I’m a Taurus that way. I have my Sagittarius moon integrity that’s you know built in and

1:19:10
everything. Um so you really everybody you know I always encourage you like read my website to get an idea of what

1:19:19
the reading is going to be about who I am and what you’re going to get out of it.

1:19:24
And if you’re good with that you’re going to get an amazing result and it’s almost guaranteed as you know as long as you follow it. Um, yeah.

1:19:33
The only reason I the only little thing I don’t guarantee is there’s always unknown unknowns that like I would never know them

1:19:40
otherwise I’d be God. And yeah, God, you know, I would say that, but you know.

1:19:45
Yeah. But there is something I love about your website which is actually very Uranian. It says something like no

1:19:53
space junk all facts or something like that. and I’m like, “Yeah, that’s in that’s in itself.” So, that was really cool and and very creative.

1:20:03
Congratulations on your website. I think it’s really cool. And so, there there you have it. I I strongly recommend to to try different astrologies and we try

1:20:12
to bring different, you know, approaches and different personalities. And 3D astrology personally is something I

1:20:19
never heard about. So, probably Cindy, you’ll be sharing more of that in the future. But in the meantime, we’re going to close this video leaving you with

1:20:27
some of a little bit of the reading Cindy gave me so you can get an idea of what the 3D astrology looks like and how

1:20:35
you actually managed to understand that even though on my chart Jupiter might be on my MC

1:20:42
actually in 3D it was not the case. So I’m going to leave you with that scene so you can get an idea and don’t forget that below you can find Cindy’s

1:20:51
information. Cindy, thank you so much for making room, you know, to tell us more about your story and hope to have you back.

1:21:01
Oh, me too. Thank you so much.

1:21:04
Thank you guys and see you in the next episode.

1:21:13
Um, looking at your natal chart, uh, I I know you’ve had other astrology readings done, and I know what everybody probably

1:21:21
just starts looking at with you. Um, is that look at that beautiful Jupiter. Um,

1:21:28
and you know, everybody’s going to be like, oh, it’s conjunct your MC, but it’s out of sign, so there’s out of sync and la

1:21:36
whatever. I mean, it it’s still conjunct the midheaven period.

1:21:41
um and you have that um Mercury next to it and essentially what’s happening is

1:21:48
obviously you were uh bound for the world. You were bound to um to tend to

1:21:55
leave where was familiar to you. The sense of um adventure and openness that

1:22:02
you have um yet you’re still grounded in practicality and you got that nice Virgo moon. So, um, you know, that’s what’s

1:22:10
going to bring a lot of the practical to you, but just seeing that you have these two planets up here. I mean, you are

1:22:17
multilingual. Um, you’re multicultural by this point. And that practicality like, yeah, that 29 degrees Capricorn is

1:22:26
definitely going to come out of, oh, I better get the job done. And that will satisfy you with that moon um, wanting

1:22:33
to get the job done. Yeah, you have Pluto is very, very, very potent in your chart. And I say this because, and let

1:22:42
me annotate it for you, but look at this. I’m just going to put a tick next to it because I don’t circle so well.

1:22:48
It’s exactly at 270 degrees.

1:22:54
That means Pluto was exactly west at the time that you were born on, you

1:23:00
1 hour, 23 minutesknow, the western direction. So if we you know if we draw the circle right sorry that mine is not a beautiful

1:23:06
circle but we have north right south west and east you have pluto coming in

1:23:15
this direction it’s a few degrees above the horizon now would you have guessed that Pluto

1:23:22
was above the horizon when you were born no no no no you see what I’m talking about that this chart is just not enough so it

1:23:31
looks like it’s below the horizon, but in actuality it’s above. And why do I say that? Because if we’re looking at the altitude now, the altitude, I’ll

1:23:40
show it here. This is the horizon. This is the azimuth, this uh circle here.

1:23:46
And let me see, I’ll actually draw where it is. Um, let me turn off my annotation.

1:23:53
And it is at 270.

1:23:56
And watch what’s going to happen. This star is going to be exactly west. Oh, see west is at 270. Mhm.

1:24:04
Now, let me put the altitude in there, which is at 7°.

1:24:09
I meant to say seven. You’re going to watch how this goes really much closer. Look at where Pluto was.

1:24:16
Okay. Wow. Yeah. Okay. This is a different coordinate system. This is a horizonal. Mhm.

1:24:25
Um, so let me see if that was the closest planet to the horizon at the time that you were born.

1:24:36
It looks like it is. So, did you know that Pluto is probably one of the strongest planets in your chart?

1:24:43
No, only by aspect. I think it’s affecting all of almost all of my chart but not like I think only one person you

1:24:51
know Steve Jot I heard of him yeah he he he told me once that pl was very strong in my chart

1:24:58
if we go by the ancients right and the one who did the local space the most with Erine Earl

1:25:06
so the way it goes in Babylonia and Egypt is that if a planet was close to the horizon

1:25:15
Now, the eastern horizon’s stronger than the western horizon because the western horizon as the day goes on, um, you

1:25:22
know, you’re going to find Pluto going, you know, closer and closer and closer, um, below. You see how it’s moving above and below.

1:25:31
Oh, this is so incredible. Yes. Yes, I can see.

1:25:34
Yeah. So, yours is at at seven right now. um which is it is conjunct the

1:25:41
horizon essentially because if we’re going like by a 10 degree orb for um um planets conjunct the horizon if you

1:25:49
think about it the next time that you have access to um watching the moon rise or set on the

1:25:58
horizon preferably if you could get to the a waterway so it’s an unobstructed horizon and it’s flat.

1:26:05
Yeah. And as you see the moon um well it’s easier to watch it when it’s rising. Um when you see it rising it’s

1:26:14
going to look a lot bigger until it gets about to the 9 or 10 degree range and then it starts to look smaller all of a sudden.

1:26:21
And it’s not like it’s not like it went further away. It’s because the um the atmospheric um refraction is not there

1:26:30
on the planet. So it’s, you know, what h happens is when it’s closer to the horizon, the light is spread a lot more

1:26:37
and luminosity and gravity matter quite a bit. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

1:26:43
So that is a strong Pluto to have. Now, thank God it’s getting closer to the end of the Actually, what it tells me is

1:26:51
that you have more of a seventh house Pluto than you have a sixth house Pluto.

1:26:56
And again, I would look at it and be like, “Oh, that husband of yours better watch it because you know, it’s like you’re not going to tolerate at all when

1:27:05
it comes to like infidelity or any kind of cheating, like say he was even like hiding um finances from you. You’re

1:27:12
going to be like, “Wow, I we were supposed to be solid together and open with each other.” Um you wouldn’t accept that and you wouldn’t do that as a partner yourself either.

1:27:21
Um if you do, there’s some kind of transit or corruption happening essentially. Mhm.

1:27:26
Um but if we’re looking So that’s a big deal and it’s the western horizon. The western horizon are where things go

1:27:33
ahead and they start to set. So if it goes below the horizon it’s no longer visible and therefore it’s more

1:27:41
in the subconscious not in the conscious. Oh wow.

1:27:45
So and it’s also where if you think about the Egyptian history of rah and set raw was where the sun rose the day

1:27:52
started. It’s about getting the activity and set was literally death. The sun setting. So the western horizon

1:27:59
represents we you know the eastern horizon represents the future. This is what’s coming towards us. The MC is this

1:28:07
is what we’re dealing with now and how do we cope with it? And then the m the eastern I mean the western is h it’s on

1:28:16
its way out. It’s not how it’s not about our past. It’s not about um what it’s done to us, but something that’s on its way out.

1:28:25
Wow.

1:28:25
And it could be good or bad. Like if it’s the sun setting, it’s a sad thing, you know, because you lose your light.

1:28:32
But, you know, maybe um if it’s if it’s Mars, you’re like, “Thank God, this thing that used to fight me all the time

1:28:40
is is going to go to rest.” Um so, we’re looking at it. That’s why I say you have a strong Pluto in your chart. Wow.

1:28:47
Looking at this coordinate. there from never ever no one explained me this. Thank you. You’re welcome. Um that’s your Jupiter.

1:28:57
So that makes it very strong as equally strong as your Pluto. As a matter of fact, I would say it would be more strong only because it’s closer to the MC,

1:29:05
that south point. And why the South Point? Because if you’re in a northern horizon, we’re looking at the southern sky. And this is going to be where it hits its peak before it starts to rest.

1:29:17
So, um, you’re pretty good here. And we use a very tight twoderee orb and not more than two degrees. So, if this was

1:29:24
177, I would say it’s not hitting a cardinal point.

1:29:29
Now, I could say that for your sun because your sun is at 149.

1:29:38
Look how far away it is from that um that meridian.

1:29:43
Oh, so it’s not yet reached its full height in actuality or it’s it’s um um it reached its full height, but it’s

1:29:51
not reaching like I I think as the day goes on, it could still go a little bit higher essentially. Uhhuh.

1:29:58
Um yes. And uh however, you saw here is the sun and Jupiter was almost about

1:30:06
here. What does that mean? You see the circle here? Mhm.

1:30:09
They’re on that same circle, which means they’re communicating with each other.

1:30:13
This is like, you know, here here are all the first graders and then here are all the 11th graders, for example. So, all the 11th graders are going to

1:30:21
communicate with each other. They’re not going to be in touch with, you know, the people in kindergarten, first grade, right?

1:30:27
Okay. Um, so you have Jupiter there, uh, sorry, you have Jupiter, you have Sun, and then the other one, which is just a

1:30:35
little bit lower, um, is Mercury, but they’re all within two degrees. So, you’re all upper classmen essentially, all talking with each other there.

1:30:45
So, you’re you have four strong planets in your sky. Are you aware of that? No.

1:30:52
Four strong planets in your Wow. Okay.

1:30:56
So your job then is more about transformation through communication um information. You’re more about being generous about guiding people to the

1:31:04
right direction, but also let’s talk about yourself more because we’re going to have to look at what is um you know

1:31:12
the priority for yourself. And what’s really interesting, the lowest planet in the sky is is um oh the moon.