0:05
When I was in Israel and in my early studies, I went to an astrologers to get my chart
0:14
read and he was the big name. I you know I scheduled this reading and you know for about an hour and a
0:22
half he was looking at my moon which is ruler of the ascendant in the
0:27
12th house and for an hour and a half or so he told me how [ __ ] up I am how um
0:35
how I was sabotaging myself and I’m a like what 19 20 year old
0:43
you know just about to start my life and so you When I came out of that reading, I felt very empty. Luckily, it
0:52
didn’t discourage me. I knew that he was not a good astrologer. You know, from then on, I kind of broke a lot
0:59
of myth about famous astrologers because it he didn’t know how to read a chart.
1:06
But at the same time, I can see how something in the ether was in motion to
1:14
kind of bring a new understanding about the 12th house because it’s so
1:21
brutalized. You know, it is so badly interpreted in most astrology books. It is scary and it’s hurting astrology.
1:39
We do need to be careful and we probably will face a deep crisis as a
1:46
community especially with Pluto being in Aquarius where there’s going to be some deep
1:54
crisis shadow that’s going to come and blow in our face so to speak.
2:00
When I see online people posting the chart of their three-year-olds and then you have people chiming in and
2:09
telling, you know, oh, you know, one terrible thing after another, it, you know, it’s misused information. It’s not going to end well.
2:20
I can see also people who are not getting a proper education, you know, learning bits and pieces of astrology and doing readings online,
2:30
doing readings. It’s a matter of time before there’s a major lawsuit.
2:35
Maurice, I want to ask you if there was a moment in your journey as an astrologer where you where you said,
2:43
“Okay, I give up. That’s it. I don’t want to be an astrologer anymore.” or never?
2:50
Not seriously. Uh but I had moments where I had to accept and face the
2:58
limitations of astrology because it’s something you need to recognize.
3:08
You know, initially everything is in astrology, right?
3:12
Whether you look at the weather, whether you look at politics, whether you look at health or personal development,
3:20
relationships. So everything can be analyzed and understood from the cycles of the planets.
3:31
But then you know, you don’t know if this is the chart of a boy or a girl. You don’t know
3:40
if this is the chart of a goat or a human.
3:45
And there were, you know, some moments of, I would say perhaps sobering moments where,
3:55
you know, I I I could I had to understand that astrology will not give me answers for some of the things I’m looking for.
4:10
you know, a feeling that I’m giving up. It wasn’t a, you know, a serious crisis that way.
4:21
But but I think more of a maturation.
4:27
Interesting. So do you think there was or what was the most challenging part of becoming an evolutionary astrologer and
4:36
why um it there wasn’t a challenge
4:47
it was you know I felt very blessed I felt
4:54
privileged to be able to do this and support myself.
5:01
Um, and through the years, you know, I I was living from hand to mouth, right?
5:08
I was doing a reading and I could pay for groceries.
5:13
So now I organize my life in such a way that I can live a little bit more comfortably.
5:23
But it is still, you know, that faith,
5:26
that conviction that I’m doing something meaningful for myself, for others,
5:35
and and it’s it’s feeding itself.
5:41
So, I don’t know, you know, God forbid I would go through, you know, some kind of condition that would not allow me to
5:50
continue. Knock on wood. Um I don’t know what I will do,
5:56
but as far as um as my practice unfolded,
6:02
I can only be grateful that I was on this path from very early on that I didn’t waste time, you know, trying to
6:10
fit in or listening to people telling me that I, you know, that I wasn’t really something professional.
6:21
and it proved itself and you know I think it’s when I look back I see how
6:30
challenging it is because there’s no security right
6:36
you don’t have a guaranteed paycheck but you know when I look around me and I
6:45
see what’s going on in the world who has a guaranteed paycheck even If you have a, you know, a work in an
6:53
institution or a bank, you know, from one day to the next, it could disappear.
6:59
So, we’re all in some kind of ways, you know, at the mercy of larger circumstances.
7:09
And the great thing about astrology is also that you’re be you’re working with people who are asking questions
7:19
who you know whether it’s students or whether it’s client who come from their own you know personal dilemmas and existential question.
7:33
you are working with seekers and
7:41
that’s amazing you know it’s amazing to to have this kind of quality of life
7:48
Maurice so when was the moment where when you decide to to be online because obviously at the beginning I can imagine
7:57
it was word of mouth how you say that to but then now with technology and you know the internet in the early 2000s and stuff maybe in the 90s in the states.
8:09
When did you say okay I I need to be online and and did you have a plan or was it like organic?
8:17
Yeah, organic. I think the internet really helped astrology because
8:24
we were not dependent anymore on people living next to us. Mhm. we could have a wider audience.
8:34
That’s number one. And so I think the online thing,
8:42
you know, evolved as the technology became available and it it really opened a lot of gates.
8:49
Now I was always a traveler because my background was multicultural. Mhm.
8:56
You know, my family traveled a lot when I was a kid. And so for me to travel
9:02
with astrology and to teach in different places in the world was also very natural.
9:11
And then being able to um have the internet
9:18
helped and of course co you know really precipitated that. There was a big boom.
9:24
It was a big boom. But it it was already happening before.
9:28
That’s why actually the transition with CO was easy because we already had infrastructure. You know,
9:36
we didn’t have to reinvent the wheel. It was already rolling.
9:43
Yeah. And so to me, you know, one of the messages I will say um astrology
9:50
and not only as you know getting a reading, but I I
9:59
think the the deepest and most transformative therapy for me and I can see that with the next generations of students,
10:10
it is perhaps some of the deepest therapy process you can go through. Yeah.
10:18
Studying astrology is not just the study. It’s not just the science.
10:27
It’s deep personal work like a transformation. No, because I mean you can learn the language but also I think
10:35
it opens so many things inside you. I don’t know how to explain it because I that was what what happened to me.
10:43
you start learning the glyphs but then you realize there’s something else going on. So I think it’s yeah it’s something
10:50
more deep than what it seems but Maurice it’s very deep now with the internet and all this
10:58
information and you know astrology you know five years ago I couldn’t find information about I don’t know Vesta and
11:05
today we have too much what would you say what what would you see this as a threat to astrology that the fact that
11:12
there is so much information or is it something good what what do you think about this new era and the role of astrology.
11:21
You know, it’s a mixed bag. And I think this is in some ways normal with any field that becomes more
11:30
popular. You’re going to have a more superficial expression of it. We see this with yoga.
11:38
you know it it was first of all,
11:41
you know, coming from India and a very ancient tradition and today you know it’s turned into a workout
11:51
and and quite often detached from deeper spiritual understanding that it’s
12:01
it it’s body and spirit. It’s not just a workout.
12:05
So we have to be realistic about the fact that some people will just use
12:13
it in a more superficial way. The same way there are sunshine columns and the same way you know there are um more
12:22
entertaining aspects of astrology. To me,
12:30
it’s it’s part of the culture, but we do need to be careful and we probably will face a deep crisis as a community,
12:44
especially with Pluto being in Aquarius where there’s going to be some deep crisis shadow that’s going to come and
12:54
blow in our face, so to speak. and will force us as astrologers to get better
13:01
organized to bring more ethical guidelines.
13:08
Um, what I see that scares me is not so much the overabundance of
13:17
information per se, but it is not understanding how intimate,
13:25
private, vulnerable we are with astrology.
13:32
Um, when I see online people posting the chart of their three-year-old and asking advice,
13:43
you know, my child has a Mars Pluto opposition. Um,
13:52
what’s going to happen? And then you have people chiming in and telling, you know, oh,
14:00
you know, one terrible thing after another. So, it goes back to the trauma that
14:07
it’s, you know, it’s misused information. It’s it’s a misuse of astrology
14:15
and it’s dangerous because astrology is powerful.
14:20
And so you put, you know, the a very vulnerable child and their vulnerability up for display in the public scene,
14:32
it’s not going to end well. M and I can see also people who are not getting a proper education, you know,
14:43
learning bits and pieces of astrology and doing readings online, doing readings um as a practice.
14:53
And again, um it’s a matter of time before there’s a major lawsuit. It’s a matter of time
15:02
before um there’s going to be damage because it is
15:10
loose and everything goes and there’s no ethical guidelines. So we are trying as
15:20
people you know who are seasoned and I did that also as a president of of OPAI at the time
15:28
to bring more consciousness about rigor about proper use and certification.
15:37
Not only certification to learn astrology but certification for counseling how to talk to people about this.
15:50
So it you know it’s still a bit of the wild west.
15:53
Yeah. I wanted to ask you because sorry you’re an evolutionary astrologer. So people that come to you I mean there is
16:01
there a fine line between the astrologer and becoming like a therapist or a psychologist? Yeah. Right.
16:09
Um we are not therapist in the sense that
16:16
we’re not trained to be and that we don’t do most of us. I mean know maybe some are combining therapy with astrology.
16:26
So that’s a next step.
16:28
But as purely astrologers we don’t do process work. Mhm.
16:35
So there is an element of healing. There is an element of therapy in having your chart done
16:44
and looking at again things that you’re working through
16:50
your your anxiety, your uh
16:56
you know despair, whatever emotional or mental situation you’re going through.
17:03
the chart can and the reading if it’s properly managed and done can be immensely therapeutic.
17:13
Um but at the same time we have to that’s also where we have to understand our limitations is that we don’t have follow-up work.
17:26
So we can help some people who are definitely soulsearching,
17:33
who need answers, who need validation, who need some guidance.
17:39
But if you really need therapy because you have post-traumatic stress or
17:46
because you know you have unresolved trauma.
17:51
Um I will say it’s it’s not enough to just rely on astrology.
18:00
At the same time, I know many people who go to more traditional therapy
18:08
who are not getting the support and the in the insight that they need
18:16
because quite often the psychotherapists are not introducing spiritual elements.
18:25
So sometimes you know as we go through psychology and and psychotherapy
18:32
we talk about emotions but we don’t talk about our spiritual reality and that is also deficient.
18:44
So I do hope that in the future as we
18:51
continue this path more trained therapists will incorporate astrology.
18:59
Mhm. And and marry the spiritual with the uh the emotional.
19:08
Um but that will also mean that you know uh the institution of
19:15
psychotherapy which has very rigid guidelines about what you can and cannot do and who you
19:23
can have as client. You know in many in the United States at least it’s very regulated by state
19:31
and you risk losing your license right in some places if you do astrology in a in a private practice.
19:40
so it’s a big it’s a you know it it it’s controversial but I think the times will
19:49
hopefully uh bring astrology to a better understanding.
19:59
Maurice, you are well you were taking this leadership roles especially at OPA.
20:07
What was the biggest shadow you had to confront in yourself or in the astrological community while taking leadership roles?
20:18
if there is him. I mean,
20:30
you know, I I I don’t know if it’s so unexpected, but there was a lot of infighting. Mhm.
20:40
how to be more cohesive as an as a community, right? That’s one aspect and respect that evolutionary astrology
20:50
is a different practice from henistic astrology. Yeah,
20:54
they cannot be compared. It’s another vocabulary. It’s another purpose.
21:00
So it’s not one or the other. It’s it’s like uh you know are you going to a lawyer or are you going to a doctor?
21:09
They each offer a different service.
21:12
Once we understand that, we stop fighting. We just understand there are common grounds, but that we aim at
21:21
different purposes as long as it’s done with integrity and professionalism.
21:31
I think some of the deepest shadow was perhaps to see that sometimes new
21:40
astrologers and very seasoned astrologers um abused astrology.
21:48
Mhm. You know, there were instances where astrology was used
21:56
um for abuse, you know, to get sexual favors to um extort money from clients,
22:09
you know, horror stories of um you know, I see in your chart that
22:16
uh um you have a sexual problem and I can help you with that. You know, crazy stuff like that.
22:29
I think you know there were uh uh violations of
22:36
ethics that were severe that can happen in any field
22:43
but it’s particularly delicate with astrology because astrology is not regulated
22:49
and these things can happen and there’s no
22:56
one to um correct and and and provide support.
23:05
So people are on their own, you know,
23:07
like if you compare that to other therapy practices where if a doctor
23:14
uh is harming a patient, there’s there’s a whole slew of uh of of corrective measures Right.
23:25
Um, but at the same time,
23:29
I hope there’s more awareness about that and that it’s not as loose as it as it was.
23:39
There is so much going on behind the scenes of being, you know, the the head of OPA or any other institution. and we
23:47
as students we can only we I don’t I don’t think we can imagine everything that you guys are you know are dealing
23:55
with. So I’m really glad you brought that up because many people would think like oh it’s the president of OPA and
24:01
you think he only has admin tasks but it goes beyond that right it goes beyond you know organizing conferences and just
24:11
being there for what you said. So I want to thank you for be you know doing that
24:17
because must not be easy at all. But as a teacher now what has been your most
24:24
humbling lesson? Uh something as student or a client reflected back to you that changed you any experience like that?
24:35
I mean, I think as the years go by and you have more experience, you gradually sculpt yourself.
24:47
In a different way, you know, when I look at the way I was doing readings when I first started and the way I’m doing it now, you know, it’s a process that has evolved. Mhm.
24:58
Not that my readings were wrong,
25:01
but maybe it wasn’t polished, you know,
25:05
maybe I’m more careful about the way I say things today.
25:12
That would be more empowering, more and that would make more sense. And the same with teaching,
25:20
you know, it’s a big big skill to teach anything, but especially
25:28
astrology because it’s such a vast body of knowledge.
25:34
And so how to be able to convey,
25:40
you know, this information in a way that is helpful, in a way that can be accessible.
25:51
I realized over the years that people were getting certified cuz they
25:58
completed the program, but then I realized they weren’t really ready.
26:05
And I saw that many people who were supposed to be qualified
26:11
ended up abandoning astrology because they felt like
26:19
they didn’t have the confidence or they didn’t have um
26:26
yeah they they didn’t feel really equipped to take this on. And you know this to some extent this will happen.
26:34
Not every student or every graduate will end up a professional astrologer.
26:42
But you have to ask yourself as a teacher,
26:49
what can I do to increase the odds and the probabilities of more confidence
26:58
and better practice and being better prepared.
27:03
So yeah, the programs have evolved over the years and you know, I’m happy today.
27:10
Today I’m happy about the way it is in the way you know the school is going and the diplomas
27:18
you know people have to earn it and it’s not just because it’s hard work to do astrology. It’s for them. It’s for
27:26
them to be to feel that as they go out in the world they are equipped. They can handle difficult situations.
27:42
So, I I don’t know if there was one moment that was,
27:48
you know, particular decisive, but but it’s a series of adjustments and questions.
27:55
And Maurice, what is something you are proud of that most people don’t know about you?
28:11
I mean, I’m very proud of the body of knowledge that I have developed over the years,
28:19
and that includes a Neptune book. I am very frustrated that I’m not writing as much as I would like to.
28:30
Um, writing is very consuming.
28:35
So it’s a it’s a financial question because writing means that you cannot work
28:44
doing other things and that you know creates a whole problem with management and sustainability.
28:56
So you know I I I hope I’ll figure it out.
29:01
I hope I’m going to be able to uh to produce on all levels.
29:08
Um but otherwise I’m I’m very proud of um of the depth
29:18
and the the beautiful body of knowledge that is cohesive and
29:28
and it’s it’s really mind-blowing you know it’s really transformative.
29:34
Thank you Maurice. And what are transits um are you personally looking forward to personally not collective collective we
29:42
know what’s more or less what’s coming but you Maurice which ones are you looking you know add with excitement are you excited about certain transits are
29:51
you a little bit like you know with another transit personally in your chart in 2026
29:59
I don’t know if I’m looking forward to any transit in particular because
30:06
because they’re all surprising,
30:11
you know, that there’s something about understanding the energy of the transit and yet
30:19
I’m learning so much from observing. you know uh Jupiter’s in cancer now and
30:28
and so it was on my ascendant and yeah I organized another workshop and you know it was it was a beautiful
30:37
experience but I I learned something much deeper with this Jupiter in cancer is actually
30:44
how I felt that my beliefs
30:51
Jupiter My ideologies were actually
30:59
[snorts] firmer than ever before to the point where I could not tolerate
31:10
people that I felt close to who
31:16
didn’t share values that were important for me, you know.
31:22
I’m thinking of how that Jupiter in Cancer in the first house made me actually more harsh and make me made me more intense.
31:36
Um, and it’s because it’s a first house.
31:41
It’s a defense, you know, it’s a house that that is more um,
31:48
you know, it’s more defensive and I became more defensive with the way I look at the world.
31:56
And and some people feel like I’m um, you know, I’m too I’m too I’m too harsh.
32:04
I I I agree with them but I don’t you know I I I I cannot not be that at
32:13
this moment with this transit. So it it taught me you know a completely different side to this experience.
32:24
Um what about Uranus in Gemini your 12th house? Um, yeah. I mean, it’s going to
32:31
be either a lot of realization or maybe I’m going to lose that screw
32:40
and u one one transit that has been, you know,
32:47
very very deep for me perhaps is the nodal return. Mhm.
32:53
As I said, the first one is when I got into astrology and it’s in Leo Aquarius.
32:58
The second one was interestingly, very literally when I was introduced to lions.
33:11
I’m doing work with conservation and I met when I was in South Africa
33:20
in a very again fated unexpected way. I met
33:27
uh a lady who brought forward a very deep shamanic
33:35
spiritual understanding of the consciousness of animals and particularly lions. So since then
33:44
I’ve been involved in conservation and I’ve been involved in uh work with lions and how
33:54
the lions are actually star beings and how this
34:02
is some you know it’s some kind of very untapped
34:09
mysterious energy still but it is very much that Leo Aquarius
34:16
animal consciousness star knowledge and if you look at astrology it’s all about animals and you have a picture of a lion next to
34:25
you or a painting or something I just noticed right now yeah so the nose will be again no in Leo
34:33
Aquarius um next year I think so that should be exciting let us know what happens
34:39
finally Maurice where Do you see astrology in 20 years?
34:47
Yeah. Um, where I hope it’s going to be or where it is going to be maybe very different things.
34:55
I hope like we said to um to have better education
35:02
and for people to understand that astrology education is not something optional.
35:09
It’s it’s part of being an astrologer.
35:15
The times of self-study is going to be over
35:25
because just like you can’t just buy, you know,
35:29
a few books and become a lawyer or buy a few books and become whatever profession
35:36
there there’s a need to organize that for safeguarding the quality of astrology.
35:47
So I I hope you know without being rigid about it, without turning astrology into
35:54
something that’s too mechanical or um you know takes away the creativity.
36:02
I think it’s important to have foundations and guidance and that also brings into question research in astrology.
36:12
Um we are starting you know when I was at OPA I I pushed as much as possible
36:20
more awareness about research and then now I’m also involved with the
36:26
NCJR group to lead research in astrology.
36:32
So what does that mean? You know, we learn astrology mostly because of what the teacher is telling us.
36:43
And there’s a lot of powerful knowledge,
36:46
but there’s also a lot of superstition or misunderstandings.
36:54
I mean, let’s talk about Mercury retrograde,
36:57
right? how the knowledge about Mercury retrograde is passing from one generation to
37:06
another about what Mercury retrograde is and how you shouldn’t sign contracts and how you you know you you have to hold
37:14
off and be ready for uh crisis.
37:22
Is that proven? you know, is that something that is statistically sound?
37:29
Because I can give you tons of example when things go wrong and the car breaks down and Mercury is not retrograde
37:38
and and times where I sign contracts during Mercury retrograde and it’s absolutely perfect.
37:50
so we need more critical thinking. We need to test things more rigorously so
37:58
that our knowledge is is validated not only because of theory but something more tangible. So,
38:09
I hope there’s going to be more of that and uh yeah, bring bring
38:17
the science, bring the heart, bring creativity and
38:25
hopefully do astrology service. Yeah,
38:30
I think that I I think we we need to
38:37
speak to astrology as a conscious entity.
38:42
The same way indigenous people look at a mountain and see that the mountain has a spirit or that the river has a spirit.
38:51
Astrology as a field is its is its own conscious living organism.
39:00
And I think we need to honor it. We need to understand that we’re in service of that entity of astrology.
39:10
That’s beautiful. Last question just came to my my mind. I’ve heard from other astrologers that are kind of
39:16
feeling threatened by Chajipi because now people are asking Chajip about certain transits or whatever. What do you think about it?
39:29
Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing?
39:31
How is it going to affect the astrological community? What are your thoughts?
39:37
My thoughts is that people are going to try and there’s going to be good things and bad things. the same way that
39:47
you know people want cheap astrology and they don’t want to pay for a reading and it’s easier and cheaper to just type
39:54
your answer and ask ch GPT what does this square mean um and I think it’s great to some extent
40:04
that um it’s evolving it’s probably going to get better it’s a little challenging for us
40:12
as creators is to have our content stolen and the same with artists, same with
40:18
writers that basically uh chat GPT is milking us. But I also,
40:28
you know, as much as we need safeguarding for that, I’m also realistic about the fact that it is part
40:36
of the zeitgeist now. And those who need just cheap stuff will get cheap stuff.
40:45
You know, you get what you pay for. And those who want deeper knowledge maybe they’re going to chart start with ch GPT
40:54
and they’re going to realize that they want something deeper. And we all you know started with the superficial stuff.
41:05
um you know were with sunsigned books or newspaper columns and
41:13
got got where we are. So I think there’s a deeper
41:23
role to AI in astrology and I think from a research point of view it’s extraordinary.
41:32
Because AI is going to be able to do statistical research that we cannot do on our own.
41:43
So there are things to look forward to.
41:47
Are you so optimistic like very balanced, how do you say response because always seeing the two of course
41:55
moon and Geminina always seeing the two sides of the the story.
42:00
Maurice it has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for for telling us a little bit more about you, your journey, your challenges and and everything you’ve
42:08
done uh contributing to the astrology community. Thank you so much. Is there anything you want to tell astrology teachers that are aspiring to become,
42:18
you know, professional or students? Is there a message you want to you want to give them before we go?
42:25
I would say today more than ever, you know, it is sustainable and possible to be an astrologer.
42:34
Yes. But you have to be you you have to be sober and also
42:40
realistic about the fact that as an astrologer
42:48
you are your own engine, you are your own structure.
42:53
So, if you’re able to be selfdriven to um to be an entrepreneur
43:02
and you love astrology, then you’re going to be successful.
43:07
But you need that level of creativity and that drive to promote yourself.
43:16
Um and again, you’re not doing it for you, you’re doing it for astrology. Mhm.
43:23
So if this is something that calls you,
43:27
uh again more than ever in our recent history,
43:33
this is accessible and and you can not only be an astrologer, but thrive as an astrologer.
43:43
Good point. Thank you for that. And I’m gonna leave Marie’s website below in the description. All his social media in case you want to check out his amazing books, his work,
43:54
his contributions uh to astrology, his YouTube channel and everything. It’s going to be there. Maurice, do you have any courses, webinars coming up h soon
44:03
or next year maybe? Can you tell us more so people know?
44:07
All the time, you know. Uh but right now I’m actually starting a new cycle, cycle
44:14
15 of the comprehensive diploma program.
44:21
So it you know it’s the it’s starting end of 20 25. It’s going to be a two and a half to threeyear process.
44:32
And and yeah, so it’s the timing happens to be uh right now. But otherwise
44:38
a lot going on. Just go to the website
44:42
articles and videos and yeah you have a lot going on. Yeah
44:50
I you know I would I would recommend maybe subscribe to the YouTube channel. Uhhuh. Of course.
44:56
And uh and you’ll get you’ll get updates from there.
45:02
Yeah. Or join the mailing list. You can do it. here at the very bottom you can see this uh joining mailing list option
45:10
and then your course which is right there on your on your homepage cycle 15 is starting soon uh when exactly start
45:19
well you have the the full program here if you want to check it out it’s already enrollment is already it’s opening
45:26
great Maurice thank you so much again and thank you guys for staying until the end I hope you really enjoy this episode
45:33
and I hope Maurice is to have you back here to talk about other personal stories or lessons you want to you want to share with us. Thank
45:41
you very much. Many thanks and blessings. Byebye. Thanks to you for your service.
45:50
Thank you, Maurice. Thank you guys. And don’t forget to subscribe if you like this interviews or to check out our website backstitchrology.com.
